GCN Radio - January 2, 2007
Transcribed by MyckeyD

To listen to this episode, visit http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio

BRIAN: Well Happy 2007, Justin! Here we are again!

JUSTIN: Happy New Year!

BRIAN: Another new year, and what a great time to be doing GCN Radio! We've got a big packed show today! And it's our Three-Year Anniversary doing the show, almost!

JUSTIN: Almost?

BRIAN: Well, actually, I just looked at the website. Our very, very first show was January 8, 2004. So we're almost there, we're about a week away. So...

JUSTIN: Wow! We've been doing the show three long years and we haven't run out of ideas yet. Amazing.

BRIAN: I know! We just keep 'em coming! This show is un-officially titled "The Previous Year's Random Voice Mail Box Clean-Up Show."

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

BRIAN: [Laughs] So we've gone through the mail, the voice mails, and picked out some ones we just didn't get to in the last year because we had other things going on, and we've found some really great calls that we're sorry we didn't get to until now, but hey, we're getting to them now! So if you were waiting to hear yourself on GCN Radio, well maybe you will, here, in just a moment.

JUSTIN: Well, now I should say right now, we had a ton that we weren't able to use, for various reasons that didn't make it onto the show. So, it's not a slight, I promise.

BRIAN: It wasn't because we didn't like you! Ha!

JUSTIN: Yeah, no, because, we can only do so many. You know? Because we talk too much, and we like to hear ourselves talk. [Chuckles]

BRIAN: Yeah, that's kind of a side effect of this business. [A-hem]

JUSTIN: No, No! We kind of just had to pick a few and just kind of "eeny-meeny-miny-moe..."

BRIAN: Right, exactly.

JUSTIN: But we LOVE to get your calls, we love to hear from you! And so, of course, whether or not you have called in the past, whether or not we've used your call, PLEASE, keep calling in! We would love to use your call in the future. We're going to have another question at the end of this show, so please do call in and let us play your call in a future show

BRIAN: Absolutely, this is interactive GCN Radio, that's what we want to have.

JUSTIN: That's the way we like it!

BRIAN: Well, the previous show to this one, the immediately previous to this one, show, uh...

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

BRIAN: ...As I try to formulate words and sentences that make sense...

JUSTIN: Yes!

BRIAN: [Chuckles] ...uh, was our annual Christmas show, and unfortunately we had to have a deadline so that we could have time to produce the show. But this one came in after the deadline, but it was such a nice call that we wanted to share this, this call from "Bryan."

BRYAN: Hi, this is Bryan, and I just became a recent member of GCN. And I just want to thank you, Justin and Brian, for GCN Radio Program that really meant a lot to me. I found a lot of encouragement and hope from that. And I just want to thank all the other people in GCN who have welcomed me to the community. I want to wish you all a very Merry Christmas and I hope that God blesses you as you continue to seek Him with your life. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year!

JUSTIN: Awe, thanks Bryan!

BRIAN: That was very nice, that is very kind.

JUSTIN: Well, you know, that makes me think. I really enjoyed listening to the Christmas show. I hadn't heard any of those greetings before the show got produced and I actually got to hear them pretty much the same time everybody else did. And, I was listening to them and I was struck by two things; one, is it's so wonderful to hear from all of our listeners from all over and you know it's wonderful to be connected to all of you in that way. The other thing was, as I was listening to the Christmas show, uh, almost everyone who called in was male. Where were the women?

BRIAN: I know!

JUSTIN: We have so many women...

BRIAN: I noticed that, too!

JUSTIN: We have so many women who write in to us at GCN, who are involved in the community at GCN, we have a number of women I know who listen to this show, we've certainly gotten plenty of calls from women on past shows, but I don't know what the deal was with the Christmas show, the women just got phone-phobic all of a sudden or something, so...

BRIAN: I know!

JUSTIN: So, women listening to the show, you need to call in and represent, okay?

BRIAN: Do it, do it, call in now!

JUSTIN: That's right, call in. You don't even know what the question is, but we want you to call in anyway. Just stop listening to the Podcast and just call in

BRIAN: Say something. Say any thing! [Laughs]

JUSTIN: Just stop listening to the Podcast and just call in and say "Hi! I'm not even done listening to the Podcast yet, but I wanted to call in and represent the women.

BRIAN: Absolutely!

JUSTIN: You know, I'm just putting that out there. The number of course, is toll free in the US and Canada, 1-888-GAY-4GOD. And we'll say that again later on in the show, but call us now, 888-GAY-4GOD. Women, and...we should have a whole show of nothing but calls from women to make up for the lack of women in the Christmas show.

BRIAN: As we like to say in broadcasting, "Women and minorities are encouraged to apply." [Chuckles]

JUSTIN: Absolutely! There you go!

BRIAN: Well, let's listen to another caller who contacted us at that number:

M: Hey guys, it's the "Mysterious M", now that I have located your phone number successfully...

JUSTIN: M!

BRIAN: Yay, M!"

M: I suppose that I should say my favorite episode of GCN was last week's episode, since you featured my comment on the air. That would be a little too self-serving of me and not quite true. I have two favorite episodes. The one that is closest to my heart is probably the episode that you talked to Gregory about being Trans. It's an issue I'm very concerned with and hits close to home, and so I found that episode to be very interesting. But on the less serious flip side of things, I think my favorite episode would probably have to be the one where you talked about movies. Because, you had people talk about Christian movies and queer movies that they liked, and it was one of the few times that I was able to feel like I was really straddling that HUGE divide between being queer and being Christian. So often I feel like I have to decide; I have to decide if I'm going to be Christian with certain people, or gay with other people, and it was nice to have that mix together and kind of feel the knitting together of two separate communities. So those are my favorite shows, keep up the good work. Bye!

BRIAN: Aw, thanks!

JUSTIN: Thanks, M! It's good to hear from you! I had completely forgotten until just now when you played that, Brian, that we asked that question a few weeks back about "Favorite Episodes of GCN Radio." I know we've gotten some text responses from that, I haven't checked to see if we have any other audio responses from that, but you know what? We will get to those. We need to do a "GCN Radio retrospective" some time soon.

BRIAN: Yes.

JUSTIN: So if you haven't called in yet about that question, I want to put that out there again. We really want to hear you favorite episodes of GCN Radio. And then we'll do a whole show. We'll talk about that some time THIS YEAR!

BRIAN: That'd be great!

JUSTIN: 2007!

BRIAN: Absolutely! Well, here's another person that responded with his favorite movie:

JOHN: Hey, Brian, Justin, this is John in Virginia. I'm actually listening to old Pod casts; I listen to it on the way to work, and on the way home. So this is from April 7th. It's a little dated, I'm sure. You asked about the movies, I guess, with the gay theme. For me the best that I've seen was "Big Eden." I thought it was a fantastic movie. I thought it was a very Christian movie. I suppose you can call it cliche in some ways, and unrealistic, but I didn't really care. It was just more of a glimpse of the world as we would like it to be and it was nice to see a movie like that.
I think both of you guys do a really good job on the pod cast. I'm slowly catching up on all the different pod cast. I'm kind of working my way back. So I do forget this week's question, and whatever it was, put me down for "Maybe." [Laughs]

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

JOHN: You guys do a really good job. Brian, I'm sorry you're moving on to other things. I do hope you come back. You guys are doing a great job! Take care of yourselves. God bless. Bye!

BRIAN: Well, thank you very much for that feedback. You know, I think this is the first time, Justin, that we've had one of our former guests call back into the show...

JUSTIN: Ooh! Who called?

BILLY: Hey guys! It's Billy Flood!

JUSTIN: Billy Flood!

BRIAN: Hey, Billy Flood!

BILLY: Wishing you a very Happy Christmas Season! My favorite thing to do for Christmas, it sort of ushers in the Season for me, is watching the movie "White Christmas." I love that musical. It came on last week here in New York, and I just sat with my cup of hot cocoa and watched it and sang with it. I had my tree up and the lights, and I just felt that I was just completely in gay heaven.

BRIAN: [Chuckles]

BILLY: My least favorite thing to do is to go shopping, actually, because I hate the crowds. And, you know, who wants to have to shove ugly women and men out of the way to grab a "Tickle-Me-Elmo" doll for your niece or nephew. It's just crazy. I hate the shopping! It's a NIGHTMARE! There's always wall-to-wall people, but something you have to go through, [chuckles] every year! So, it has to be done! So those are the two things I love and hate about the Christmas season. Keep up the good work. I love this show, of course! Have a very merry Christmas and a good New Year, too! Thanks! Bye!

BRIAN: Thanks Billy, that's great! Billy, you are the second gay man that I know, that doesn't like shopping in stores. The first one of course, would be ME!

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

BRIAN: But I don't know that many gay men that don't like shopping, you know, back to our old discussion of stereotypes.

JUSTIN: I think it depends entirely on whose money you are spending!

BRIAN: YES! That's true.

JUSTIN: [Laughs] Thanks, Billy! Well, of course, that's an answer to another question that we haven't gotten around to responses from, with regard to "Favorite and least favorite things about the Holidays." Fun times! GREAT, as always, to hear from our guests!

BRIAN: Absolutely! And please keep calling! We said a while back, you could take the "Questions of the Week" out of order [chuckles] as we've already seen. It still makes for good radio, and it's still interesting to hear your feedback no matter what question you're responding to. So do give us a call at 1-888-GAY-4GOD.

JUSTIN: Yeah, absolutely. It's always great to hear from our listeners, it's also great to hear from our guests, and we have a guest on the show today. You know we haven't had a guest the last few weeks of the show.

BRIAN: I know! It's great to have a guest today!

JUSTIN: It's good! We've got several guests lined up. So we'll have some more shows with guests. Today, our guest is a really nice guy. This is a guy that I met recently, who is doing some interesting work trying to build bridges between the LGBT community and the Christian community. His name Andrew Marin, a straight Evangelical Christian guy, and he started the Marin Foundation. Andrew, welcome to the show!

ANDREW: Hey, thank you guys very much for having me.

BRIAN: We're glad to have you, Andrew. Now, your web site, www.themarinfoundation.org tells a little about your organization, and about your work, but for people who've never been there, describe The Marin Foundation and, you know, maybe a little bit about your background, just let us get to know you a little bit.

ANDREW: Yeah, sure, sure, well, before I get into exactly what The Marin Foundation is and what we actually do, I just wanted to talk about my story, because that really explains how everything has come about. So, pretty much, I was raised in the Naperville area of Illinois, which is a Chicago suburb, and it's very, very conservative, a very Right Wing or pretty much so, the only Illinois county that votes Republican. So I was raised in a large Assemblies of God church out there, which, you know the Assemblies of God denomination is very fundamental in it's beliefs. For me growing up I always went along with the tagline regarding the gay community: "It's a sin," "they can change," "they're all going to hell," you know all that type of stuff. So, it's pretty much far right wing as you can possibly get, I was for the first eighteen years of my life. I didn't know any one who was gay; at least I didn't think I did. And it's not something--I would say it's not someone sat around the dinner table saying, "Hey, Dad, what do you think about the gay community today?" But somewhere after my freshman year in college, within a three month span, MY THREE BEST FRIENDS all came out to me and told me they were gay.

BRIAN: Oh, wow!

ANDREW: Yeah! So at that point, that summer truly just brought me to my crossroad, and at the end of the day, I had to come to the decision, what am I going to do? Am I going to continue with my life, as I had been taught the first 18 years of my life? Or, am I going to step way out of my comfort zone and immerse myself in the gay community? And, a lot of people, today, at least from the "Evangelical world," think that my decision was kind of strange. But, I just decided, well, "hey, my best friends are gay, so as much as a straight guy can be immersed in the gay community, that's what I'm going to do." So, that started an eight-year journey of immersing myself in the gay community, from only going to gay bars and clubs, to having all gay friends to going to big gay functions, you know, Chicago has a large gay community, we have the Pride parade every year, which brings in millions of people. We have Halsted Market days. So that's just what I did. So it came into, I always say, "Listen, I am not gay, so do I really know what it's like? No I don't." But as much as a straight guy can be immersed in the gay community over the past eight years I have been and within those eight years, some of my friends who I got to know all this time, I started to realize how highly religious they were, and how much that they wanted to go to church and how much they wanted to know the Lord. But they felt like they couldn't because they don't feel like they could've been accepted in any church. So that's really what started this whole process of just hearing all my friends talk and hearing the pain of them getting kicked out of church or hear them getting disowned by their parents or not feeling that the Lord can love them, and that's not the Lord that I know. And so that's really how all of this came about.

JUSTIN: So my first question for you Andrew is, are all of your best friends gay, what's the deal? I'm curious. [Laughs]

ANDREW: Yeah.

BRIAN: Because you're hanging out with gay people do people mistake you for being gay? And how do you handle that?

ANDREW: Well, to answer your question first, Justin, pretty much all of my best friends are gay. I'm getting married November 3rd of 2007, and my fiancee's family is, [chuckles] you know, they were raised in the same very large conservative church as myself. And when I told them that I was going to have, um, gay people stand up on my side during the wedding, and one of them is a girl on top of that, they were a little weirded out by that whole situation. A lot of my best friends are gay, now, just recently, for whatever reason, I've found some more friends that, you know, I've branched out a little bit I guess you can say that are not gay, but during my college years, it was, I was--it's funny--you hear people say, "That's the token gay guy." I was the token straight guy.

BRIAN: [Laughs]

ANDREW: Yeah, but, in regards to your question, Brian, I get asked all the time if I'm gay. That question doesn't even faze me any more. You know, I guess it's weird the first couple times, but you know it's been since '99 now that this has been going on. So people ask all the time. However, though, the funny part is when I go out with them to different bars and clubs and things to that effect, I never get hit on, ever! Because, [chuckles] as funny as it sounds I really believe that the gay community has the best gaydar on the face of the earth, so they can pick me out like a sore thumb.

JUSTIN and BRIAN: [Laughs]

JUSTIN: Well, so, you know, we've got, obviously, a bunch of people that are listening to the show right now, who are gay Christians, whose family members or friends or churches, pastors, whoever, either don't know or are not gay-positive, certainly. So many of us who are gay have dealt at one time or another with--I hesitate to say "homophobia"--but certainly, "struggles," I'll say, with the straight Evangelical Christian community. Especially STRAIGHT men, a lot of times are the most difficult, for me as a gay man, I find that a lot of straight men, you know, just don't seem to know how to relate. So, as a straight conservative Christian guy, if you can take yourself back to before your friends came out to you, can you kind of give us a picture of, what's going on in a straight Christian guy's mind with regard to homosexuality, and for those of us who are gay, how do we need to respond to that?

ANDREW: Well you know, I think that absolutely the key component and the key question is what you just asked me. And the broader picture or the broader scope of what The Marin Foundation does, and I'll get to your question in a second, but the broader scope of what we do is two-fold, it's not only a reaching out to the broader GLBT community but it's reaching out to the broader Evangelical community as well, because I relate with those people. If I would've gone back in time, and told myself when I was 18, "This is what you need to do in regard to the gay community, and you're going to have all gay friends, and this is who you are going to be." I would've told you, you could've taken a flying leap, and I would not have believed a single word out of my own mouth. And so in going to churches, especially conservative or evangelical churches and talking to those different communities, it's, I don't feel like I'm talking to those communities, I feel like I'm talking to myself who I was ten years ago. You know? I feel like I can more personally relate to where they're coming from because for most of those people, they don't know any better.

JUSTIN: Yeah.

ANDREW: And not to say that they're ignorant or not to say that that community is willfully ignoring the situation, although that might play into it, the fact is, that, a lot of people in the Evangelical community are thoroughly convinced, I mean 110% convinced, that they don't know any one who's gay, and therefore, because they don't know anyone who's gay, it's not their issue and it's not their thing and it's not their problem. And so with that said, what we're really trying to do is bring the gay community as a tangible entity to those of the Evangelical world, to say not only do you KNOW someone who's gay, because I'm just thoroughly convinced that every body knows someone who is gay. And I don't care if you're in a "poduncky" church in the middle of a farm in Iowa or South Dakota or wherever you are, you are going to be influenced somewhere in your life by someone in the gay community. And so for those of the gay community, in trying to understand and reach out to the evangelicals, the first and foremost I would say, you have to understand that whether it's willful ignorance or whether it's how I was, that I just truly believed that I didn't know anyone who was gay and it wasn't my problem, that's the mind set that you have to take in interacting with these people, and these people meaning the conservative Christian communities. So really for the most part, I kind of call it the 95-5, you have the 5% who are going to be adamant and very outspoken and very anti-gay and things to that effect, and then you're really going to have the 95% that are just kind of going along with the tag line, you know? And it's those 95%, that I don't want to say that they're like a "movable middle" but if you present yourself and present your opinion in just a very calm and peaceful and dialogue-fashioned way, it's going to be received very well. And, you know, lot of what we do, within our class and programs, things to that effect, is that I bring in my friends, I bring in people from the gay community, I bring in gay Christians and gay evangelicals and bring this as something that is not an untouchable topic, but it's a person and it's flesh and blood and spirit and salvation behind all of this. Because a lot of the times people like to separate, I should say, separate the behavior versus the identity regarding the gay community, and what we try and say it's not about separating the behavior and identity, because the behavior and identity become one.

BRIAN: I had not heard that five per cent and ninety-five per cent, but it really makes sense. I mean ninety-five per cent of people are just going along with whatever they've been taught without really, really stopping to think what they believe personally.

JUSTIN: I think that's very true when you have a small percentage of people who are very vocal and a large percentage who don't say anything. It gives the impression that the entire group is unified behind everything that the vocal people are saying, when in fact it may just be a few vocal people and a lot of people who don't really know how to respond.

BRIAN: So how do you begin to build that bridge? How does that change start to happen and how does The Marin Foundation work with that?

ANDREW: Well, I think that what separates us from a "traditional", I guess you could say, organization or whatever, Evangelical organization regarding the gay community, is a few things; and the first thing we say off the bat is, "Listen, it's not our job to tell anyone that they should or shouldn't be gay, so get the change issue out of your head, because that's not what we're all about." That kind of wakes everyone up! Because the traditional way of looking at is, "OK. Well, what's the best way that we're going to get people to change?" Well, no, it's not about that, it's not about a 12-step program or whatever to try and get people to change. So get that out of your head. The second thing we do that is so different is that we try and work so closely and strategically partner so much with gay organizations. Because a bridge can only be built if you have solid ground on both sides. You don't see half bridges, and you don't see bridges just floating in air that aren't suspended to either side of the ground, so there needs to be solid ground on both sides. And for too long, the evangelical community has always been to the gay community, "Well, we'll reach out to you if you become like us." And, it shouldn't be about you becoming like us or us becoming like you, it should be about everyone meeting together and dialoguing, understanding from the greater structural issue we're talking about here. So, really, how we go about doing this is working with both the gay community and the evangelical community and try and put these people, put key people, from these communities together and have them talk and have them learn. The more talk that happens, the more dialogue that happens, the more understanding that happens, the less "demonized" either side becomes. And it becomes real people in real situations in real life things that make it not so much of an intangible thing, but make it more a tangible experience.

JUSTIN: Yeah. I totally agree. So, as we are then building these bridges, and we're having these conversations, do you think, turning the microscope around to the gay community for a minute, do you think there are some people in the LGBT community who are entering into this kind of dialogue or discussion with unrealistic expectations, that they are asking for something from the conservative Christian community that's not fair or not realistic to be asking for?

ANDREW: Well, I really believe that both sides have, sometimes, unrealistic expectations. You know? You go into this thing understanding that unfortunately the world we live in can never be a full utopian God-loving society as it was back when the Lord created Adam and Eve. But with that said, we always try and focus on meeting in the middle ground. There are some gay organizations that we work with that are very politically involved and they're talking about gay marriage and equality rights, and gay community clergy and stuff like that. And in the same effect we work with very large evangelical organizations, the churches that oppose gay marriage, and don't think that gay people should be allowed to be involved in the ministry and those types of things. Now, the point comes into effect when both of them start to understand that it's not about an agenda, it's about Salvation, and it's about Eternity. And when you start to look in the bigger picture within that framework, then you do start to see more of a middle ground and you start to see these people as in both sides understand where they're coming from and start to mutually work together for the greater good. However, with that said, at the end of the day, you can't convince someone to believe something or to do something if they're dead-set on not wanting that to happen, or not convincing.

JUSTIN: If you don't mind a quick follow up: What about those in the LGBT community who aren't Christians, aren't religious at all? How do approach that with them?

ANDREW: Sure. That's actually the bulk of our, I guess you can call it our "ministry" to the GLBT community is to go out and in essence, reach the "un-reached." We always have people with other organizations who work with homeless people, and it's easy for other churches to get behind "homelessness" or "the needy" or people without food, or HIV-AIDS or things to that effect. But what about the person who has a good education, a good life, a good job, a nice house, a nice car, whose life is going great, who doesn't know and/or love the Lord? What do you say to that person? You know? And to top it off, and that person is gay? He's saying, "Listen, I've built myself to this point. Where were you and your God twenty-five years ago?" And that's truly what we're trying to do within the gay community is reach out to THOSE people! And you ask, "What about them?" And my response is, "There's a lot!" And what I have noticed is, you as in you being anybody, you being GCN, you being the Marin Foundation, or you being just an individual, reach out to that person and present an option for them. An option, not to say you need to be straight or gay, but to say, "Listen, the Lord Jesus, MY GOD, and YOUR GOD loves you, and you're a part of the family and you can be part of the family!" It ultimately comes down to that person coming to their crossroads, just as I came to my crossroads, their crossroad is now am I going to make a cognizant decision for God or am I going to make a cognizant decision not for God? And at the end of the day, I have even been surprised at how many people who have made it on their own for all this time, have wanted and longed to feel like they can be a part of The Kingdom, and it's a very, very powerful thing when someone is in a good spot away from God, decides or has been longing to be part of The Kingdom and gives their life to the Lord. So really, to answer the question, I would honestly say that, it's just a matter of reaching out. And you would be shocked how easily or how well received you're going to be if you just present it in an unthreatening fashion.

BRIAN: That's truly amazing, very cool. In the work that you've done, Andrew, surely you've encountered some "opposition" [chuckles] and some challenges. What kinds of obstacles and challenges have you had to deal with in running The Marin Foundation?

ANDREW: Well, you know that's been a very interesting thing for me in my life, and for the organization, in general. It's funny, I was talking to Justin, recently, and he was saying you guys did a whole program on some of the "hate mail" you guys have received, from both sides, and standing in the middle and being a bridge is not the easiest thing in the world, because you do receive a lot of punishment or a lot of hate mail, or a lot of things said about you from both sides. It can get overwhelming, sometimes. When you have, you know, a national thing written about you or spoken about you, or whatever the case is, you guys know the just in the same, you get it and it comes in very frequently, and to wake up every morning for a while to have an inbox full of not the nicest things said about you or your character, it's not the best thing in the world, or it's not the best feeling, or if someone is out there, and they don't know you personally and they've never met you, and they start talking about your self, and your motivation or your character and things to that effect, it hurts, but at the end of the day, you really have to come to a broader peace with this whole thing. And, just in general, that's been happening to me quite a bit recently after some national attention that we've been getting. You know, the Lord is really, I feel, He's really starting to prepare me to continue to go through this to come out with my head up at the end of the day. And I just want to throw some stuff out here, 1st Corinthians 4:20 says, "The Kingdom of God is not a matter of talk, but of power." The Lord Jesus is about power, not about continual talking. And that's really what we want to do. We just want to show ourselves, prove ourselves worthy for the Kingdom within both evangelical and the gay community, not by trying to pin people with words that they say, but showing with our actions, and so I always tell people, in both the gay community and the evangelical community, "Listen, if this is something you both decide to do to enter in this "battle", if you could call it that, to enter into acting as a bridge between you two communities, you have to be ready." Because if you're gay and you enter into this, you're going to be one of few people who decides to stand up and enter through the narrow gate. Just in the same fashion, if you're in the evangelical community, if you decide to enter into this, you're going to be one of a very few people in the evangelical community to stand up and willfully decide to enter into this. So I just say prepare yourself, because it's not going to be the easiest thing, but the results and the rewards that we see, the Lord sees, and knows our hearts are in what we're trying to do. It's definitely by no means, always "peachy keeny", but it's a battle, but know that the Lord's on your side, and He's going to take your back for what you're doing. That really gives me comfort as I continue to move forward.

JUSTIN: I love it anytime a guest comes on the show and quotes the Bible. That's awesome--as long as they're not quoting the Bible to condemn gay people!

ANDREW: Yeah!

BRIAN: [Chuckles] Yeah.

JUSTIN: We hear that enough, but the rest of it, that's awesome! Thanks, Andrew!

BRIAN: Well, I know there have been a lot of exciting things that the foundation is doing. Just kind of scrolling down through your website: you talk a little about a study that discusses the "Acculturation scale." If you could describe that, and then there's a research study that seems to be going along with that. Tell us a little bit about that.

ANDREW: Right. Sure. Well, this is a big thing for the foundation--a research study--not only for the foundation, but for both the GLBT and religious communities as well. Our current research study, our scientific research study is called "Religious Acculturation within the GLBT Community." To date, as of right now, this is the largest national study that has ever been done in the GLBT and religious community. The previous largest study that was ever done was done in 1993, and it had 900 national participants. Our study right now is a two-year study, running through October 2007. And our goal is to have about two-thousand national participants, so it's going to more than double the previous largest study that's ever been done. In 2008 we will submit that and get that published in an academic journal. However, what that's really looking at is, is a few different things. Why it's needed is for a few different ways, and I'll just explain real briefly here. When I say "acculturation", what I'm talking about is how well "accustomed" someone is to whatever variable, or how comfortable some one is to whatever variable. So ultimately what we're looking at are five different variables within our research study. The first one is the acculturation levels within the GLBT community to their own broader community; so, how well do people in the gay community feel they relate to others in their community. The second is acculturation levels within the GLBT Community to spirituality and religion. And when I say spirituality and religion, those things are two separate entities; spirituality being one, and religion being more of an organized type of religion. Number three is past and present religious practices, both within your family as you grew up and as an individual as an adult. The fourth thing is going to be a little demographic section. Once again, this study is completely anonymous. So our demographic section is: "Are you out to your friends?" "Are you out to your family?" "Where were you born?" "Where were you raised?" "Do you consider yourself with any different religious affiliation or denomination?" those types of things. And then the fifth thing, we use the Kinsey Sexual Orientation Scale. That really ties the rest of the study in. The exciting part about this study, not only is it the first of its kind, not only is it the largest national study that's ever been done, but there can be so much great and powerful material that's going to come out of this study, that we can continue to follow up with new material and new studies to try and truly understand what it is that the broader GLBT community feels about themselves and about religion and about God and about spirituality! And we can take that information, we can start taking it to churches, we can start taking it to organizations, and say, "Listen, this is what the country is saying, and this is how we can make a difference!" So any one, you know, any one and everyone listening, please feel free to go to our website, which is www.themarinfoundation.org and if you click on our "Current Projects," you can participate anonymously online through our website and be a part of this ground-breaking study. And we would appreciate it to no end!

BRIAN: Great, there you go!

JUSTIN: Good deal!

ANDREW: Yeah!

JUSTIN: Well, Andrew, dude, you're a--Andrew and I talked the other day about the fact that I say, "dude" um...

BRIAN: [Laughing]

JUSTIN: You're young. You're a straight white Christian. I mean, normally, the people who are most interested in building these kinds of bridges are the people who are IN the community the bridge is being built to. You know?

BRIAN: Um-hmm. Right.

JUSTIN: You're accomplishing a lot and getting a lot of good press. It's a pleasure, and I'm glad we could have you on today. Thank you so much for taking your time to chat with us!

ANDREW: Hey! Thank you so much Justin and Brian and every one at GCN. I just appreciate you guys, I love you guys, and I respect you and everything and EVERYTHING that you're doing! I just really appreciate this opportunity to be here with you and really start to build something solid with you all. So, thank you!

BRIAN: That's wonderful! It's great to have you!

JUSTIN: Well, awesome! Thanks! That's Andrew Marin of The Marin Foundation, and that's www.themarinfoundation.org.

BRIAN: Well, Justin, it's great to have Andrew on the show today, talking about The Marin Foundation, and it's just another example of people we want to get to know better who are doing the same kind of work that we are at GCN, but in a different way. And it takes all of us working together to get the message out; because, Andrew's group is going to reach people that we're not, and vice versa. So it takes all of us working together, so it's exciting when we can find someone like him, who is out there fighting the good fight and spreading the Gospel.

JUSTIN: Definitely, and you know, it's all about Jesus. And that's the thing, is if we keep giving the glory to God instead of putting it on ourselves, putting the focus on our sexuality, and you know, our humanity, then I think God blesses that and God can magnify the things that we do. And everybody has things that they can do in their everyday lives to be of service to Him. So, it's always exciting to hear what people are doing. We would love for our listeners to get in touch with us and let us know about some of the things that they are doing, or people they know, especially if you know somebody you know who would be a great guest for GCN Radio. Let us know! And you never know...

BRIAN: Absolutely!

JUSTIN: But, speaking of letting us know things, I've got a "Question of the Week" for this week.

BRIAN: Okay!

JUSTIN: It's because, of course, it's New Year's! We're celebrating a brand new year, moving from 2006 into 2007. Brian, you and I were talking about this before the show. Everybody, it seems, that I know has things that have been going on in their life recently. I know a lot of people who are looking forward to different things for this year. So I want to ask all of our listeners out there in listener land, as you look forward to this year, of 2007, what are you anticipating is going to be different about this year? It may be you've had some recent changes in your life. Maybe you've made a resolution, a New Year's resolution, that you feel is going to make a big impact on your life. But maybe not, maybe it's something else. Maybe this is the first year that you're going to be "out of the closet."

BRIAN: That's pretty big!

JUSTIN: Yeah! Maybe this is the first year that you've come back to a relationship with God after being away for a while. Maybe, someone important to you passed away this year, and this is going to be the first year that you're going to be facing without them. Maybe you've just moved, or, you know, I mean it could be a big thing or a little thing. But we're really interested in hearing from you. What's going to be different, this year, in your life or in your world? You know? Things you're looking forward to, things you're scared about, whatever. So, we want to hear from you, whatever is going to be different for you this year, and you can let us know by calling our toll-free GCN Radio comment line.
BRIAN: Yes, which is 1-888-GAY-4GOD!

JUSTIN: And if you're scared of the letters on your telephone keypad, that's 1-888-429-4463.

BRIAN: Righty, right! Yes!

JUSTIN: Yes. That number is toll-free, of course, within the U.S. and Canada. For our listeners outside of those areas, we would still love to hear from you! You can write to us, all of our listeners you can, even if you're within the U.S. and Canada, you can write to us by going to our website at www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio and just fill out that box there and those comments that are put into that box might just be read on a future edition of the show!

BRIAN: Yaaaaay!

JUSTIN: So tell us what's going to be different for you this year. Also, tell us, as I said before, your favorite GCN Radio episode. Of all the ones you've listened to, even if you haven't listened to all of them, that's okay. Tell us the one that have been most meaningful to you, the ones that you've really enjoyed for whatever reason, and we're going to do a GCN Radio retrospective, so we would really like to get as many responses to that as possible.

BRIAN: Um-hmm. Absolutely. Well, many of you may know over the 4th through the 7th of January, Justin and I will be at the GCN Conference. So we hope to see many of you there! And if you weren't able to make it this year, well, I'm sure there's going to be one next year! So pray about it and think about it. And pray for all of us, that we are inspired and that we're open to what God has in store for us over that weekend that we are going to be spending together.

JUSTIN: That's right, it's going to be an awesome time! So please do keep that in your prayers! And we will return to you after the GCN Conference is over.

BRIAN: Right! So we appreciate you listening! And again, please give us your feedback on anything, at 1-888-GAY-4GOD. So, for this week, I'm Brian.

JUSTIN: And I'm Justin. Happy New Year!