GCN Radio - February 25, 2005
Transcribed by Vombatus

To listen to this episode, visit http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio

[GCN Radio Intro]

BRIAN: It’s our first show of 2005. Glad to be here, and lots has happened, Justin, since we were last with folks… we’ve had a conference and a few other developments, but we are very, very excited about a big milestone that’s happened for GCN just in the early part of February.

JUSTIN: Well, in some ways it’s a big thing and in some ways it’s a little thing. We’ve finally gotten our 501(c)3 status from the IRS.

BRIAN: Yay!

JUSTIN: Which basically what that means is, we’ve been operating as a non-profit for over a year now, but not every non-profit is a tax-exempt organization. And the 501(c)3 status means that we are tax-exempt, that donations to us are deductible and so on and so forth and it’s nice to finally have that officially recognized.

BRIAN: That is a very good thing, and it means a lot of good things for the future of GCN, coming up with ways of helping people get through life as a gay Christian. And to that end, on GCN Radio today—maybe this isn’t the most ‘warm and fuzzy’ topic we’ve had on our show, but it is an important topic and one that I wanted to do, but I didn’t want to do it until I could get a guess who really could speak to it. And today’s guest is Betty Hancock. She’s a licensed mental health counselor and she is going to talk to us today and help us work through some questions about depression. And I think it’s something that I’ve certainly dealt with and a lot of people have dealt with either with themselves or a loved one. So, Betty, welcome to GCN Radio.

BETTY: Thank you!

BRIAN: Let’s talk just a second about the definition of depression… it’s more than just ‘feeling a little down’, I would say.

BETTY: Yes. There are several symptoms that a person has if they’re depressed and it doesn’t mean that you have to have every single one of them but most people that are depressed will feel several of these things. One is sadness, they feel lethargic, they don’t want to get up and do anything. They have activities that they normally really, really enjoy and they don’t feel like doing those. They have an attitude maybe of—the term that you hear nowadays—of ‘whatever’, being apathetic. Their appetite is either none where they just don’t want to eat at all, or they want to eat and eat and eat and gain a lot of weight and they get more depressed, especially if you’re a woman. They lose concentration, they can’t stay focused, like if they’re in school or at work. In children you might see a change in their behavior where they become maybe aggressive or you see them just not caring anymore. You also might see a change in the grades of a child, and that may happen too with a college student, their grades change, you can’t figure out what’s going on with them. Those are most of the symptoms of depression.

JUSTIN: We get a lot of folks, I know, at GCN who come to us for support and many times they’re coming from environments that aren’t the most accepting. Maybe they have conservative parents who don’t accept them as gay or lesbian, or they’re in an environment that makes them feel very alone for whatever reason. And so I know that I hear, and other folks at GCN hear from these people who will say “I’m depressed”, “I’m feeling depressed”, “I’m feeling suicidal”, even, “I don’t know if my life is worth living”… when somebody says something like that to you, how do you respond to that? How can we respond?

BETTY: Well, I think, first of all, it just helps that somebody listens to their pain and they don’t criticize it or judge it but in your listening you validate what they are saying, rather than argue with it or try to justify and say, “Well, you know if you go to church, maybe you wouldn’t have this,” or “If you pray hard enough, this will get better”. That’s not helpful. One of the things that is most helpful is if you just validate and say, “Boy, that sounds like it’s really hard to deal with and if I can ever help, I would be happy to.”

BRIAN: I think we’re so quick to give advice.

BETTY: Right.

BRIAN: You’re saying just to try to listen and affirm what they’re saying?

BETTY: Exactly. Because a lot of time people don’t want advice, they just want somebody to hear the pain. And I think that that’s one of the biggest jobs that as a therapist that we do… we’re somebody that is listening to them without judgment.

JUSTIN: You know it struck me when you said that. We’re doing daily bible readings at GCN and once a week we’ve been reading passages from the book of Job. When Job has all of these horrible things happening to him, his friends come to him and the first thing they do is start giving him advice, and that’s not what he needs.

BETTY: And they were being judgmental and critical, asking Job, “Job, what do you have going on in your life that this evil is coming upon you? Are you sinning? What are you doing?” And so when we do that, we’re just piling more guilt and pain on someone who has depression, because then they start thinking, “Oh my gosh, what have I done? I must really be a bad person. I’m depressed, and I must be a bad person. God made me gay and why did he do that and I’m angry with Him…”

JUSTIN: What about for those folks who may be listening to this show who are experiencing depression right now, in their own lives, and maybe they’ve tried to get some help from friends or folks over the Internet, but the distance is so great and people just don’t realize how much they’re hurting. And people don’t know what to say to them and they feel like they’re not getting the support they need? Do you have advice for things that they can do?

BETTY: Sure. In most communities there is a mental health center; some are insurance based, some are Medicaid/Medicare, some will expect payment with what you can afford on a sliding fee. But if you’re having a depression that lasts longer than a couple of weeks, and you notice it’s just getting worse and worse, I would suggest that they get a mental health professional, a counselor, and just start talking to them about everything that they’re feeling and some of their goals, or lack of, or they don’t know what to do. But certainly, try to find a mental health professional.

BRIAN: I want to just ask, kind of going in a different direction, is there any scientific evidence that says that gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered people are more prone to depression or is this a common problem for all people, gay or straight?

BETTY: As far as gays or lesbians, not that I’m aware of, that we have specific studies that say, “Yes, we’re more prone.” I think that what happens is because we’re a minority, and as a minority we’re going to have more suppression happening to us, and then we’re not an accepted minority. There’s a lot of hatred towards the gay and lesbian community and when you have that constant hatred coming toward you from—whether it’s people in your church or in your school or wherever you go to work—you hear really negative comments about gay and lesbians. I experience that with my own job. I don’t advertise that I’m a lesbian in my job, but in my office I have my family, I have three children and I have their pictures up there and my partner. And my partner looks something like me, a lot like me, and my clients have asked “Why do you have a picture of yourself up here?” But I have clients that I have worked with for a year, or six months, and they’re really making progress and then all of a sudden they’ll say something like, “You know, I really can’t stand these queers out here, these fags, they make me sick. I just don’t understand why somebody would want to be gay.” And you know, I’m sitting there and hearing that and I know that I’ve helped this person a lot and for some reason they haven’t put it together that I’m gay, with the pictures, and so it’s hurtful. I’m a therapist and it’s hurtful to hear someone like that say that to me, but I have to blow it off so that I don’t take it on.

JUSTIN: Are there other factors—aside from the whole gay thing—are there other factors in somebody’s life that might make them more likely to feel depressed?

BETTY: Depression comes along with being different. It comes along with—we have a lot of chemical depression and that’s something that I wanted to explain, and that’s the difference between chronic depression and situational depression. Chronic depression is where we see more people that have a chemical imbalance in their brain and we give them therapy, and therapy helps, however it may not help as much as they could be helped and so what we try to do is to put that chemical back in their brain and then they start getting relief. That’s more chronic depression; they’re going to have it the majority of their life. Situational depression is where something has happened, like someone has died in your family or you just had a break up, something that just really upsets you… you just lost X amount of money and you really needed it for something. So it’s a situation and it makes you depressed and you’re having a hard time coming out of it. So talking to someone may help. We do give anti-depressants for that and we get them through the rough time of recovering from a loss or something, and then once they get through that then we back the anti-depressant off and we terminate it’s use and then the person tends to be okay.

JUSTIN: What about things like diet, exercise, sleep schedule, even I’ve heard people talk about light, like winter versus summer… can those things have an impact as well?

BETTY: Absolutely. I always ask my clients to include a daily exercise, to come up with something they will enjoy. And they are always going say, “Well, I don’t feel like it, I’m too tired, I can’t get out of bed.” And this is something where they have to force themselves to do this, or have someone help you whether it’s a roommate or a family member saying, “C’mon, we’re going to go walk.” But any kind of activity—walking, running, going to the gym—anything will help. And also, I try to get them on an eating schedule where they have breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner, snack…keeping their blood sugar level is very important. A lot of people that are depressed, they won’t eat all day and then they’ll eat something big at night, so their blood sugar level is low all day long, and so that makes them depressed. Lastly, making sure that they try to get a normal sleeping habit, like going to bed at the same time, getting up at the same time. When they go to bed different hours, get up different hours, and it’s not really regular, then the circadian sleep rhythm is off and your whole body gets thrown off and those things can lead to depression.

BRIAN: Wow, just listening to you, I’m making a little check list of things that I should be doing right now, in my own life. And these are very, very good things that we can all strive for so that we can be more centered and be more whole.

BETTY: One of the things that I’ve noticed with Christians and working with Christians in therapy is that they feel that they are selfish if they do anything for themselves. You know, ‘to be a good Christian I have to help this person, that person’, but when I ask them a question, “What are you doing for yourself, to keep yourself healthy?” And many of them say, “Well, I don’t do anything because then people will think I’m selfish!” Kind of the boundary for selfishness is, when you help someone, if it sabotages your health or your career, then you’ve gone too far on helping. You’ve gone too far over that boundary. If you have the availability, the means to help someone and you just choose not to, that’s selfishness. So I try to encourage Christians to take time for themselves, not just their family, or friends, or whoever they’re helping.

JUSTIN: Maybe sometimes that feeling of lethargy and depression is your body’s way of telling you that there’s something you really need to change in the way you’re approaching things.

BETTY: Absolutely. Our bodies are great messengers and talk loudly if we would listen to them.

BRIAN: I had a campus minister tell me one time, “You can’t take care of anyone else unless you take care of yourself first.” And at first that sounded strange to me, but it really rings true.

BETTY: It is.

BRIAN: Betty, we’re nearing the end of our time, but I wanted to ask, what do we need to do more of, as people, to become healthier and better, mentally and spiritually.

BETTY: Taking time for yourself. I mean, every day, this hour or this two hours, is for me. I turn off the phone, I turn off the pager, everything, and I just do something that I like to do, something that will make me happy, and that will make me more acceptable to myself. It’s a place where I can just discharge my negative thinking and the bad energy that you may have going on for whatever reason from the day, but you take time for yourself. And you have to commit to that, because if you say, my time is from 8 to 10 in the evening and then all these people start calling on the phone and other things start happening, and you just say, “Well, I’ll just skip this time today for myself and I’ll just talk to so-and-so.” If you keep doing that day after day, then you’re going to find yourself depressed, tired, not wanting to do things, being less agreeable, moody. So being just committed to yourself, in time, as you are committed to everything else that you’re doing.

JUSTIN: And I would add, one thing I think for me that has made a huge difference in my life—and I haven’t really talked about this a lot, Brian—but when I was in college I went through a very, very difficult time emotionally just kind of coming to terms with everything. I know that one thing that has made a huge difference in my life is taking time for prayer and spending time with God. And I think for a long time, I thought that taking time for God was another obligation and it had to be Bible study. That every day I had to spend a certain amount of time pulling out my Bible and reading passages and making notes and all these things and especially at times when I was down, I just couldn’t seem to bring myself to do it. And one thing that I have found that helps me, is that in the times that I don’t want to spend that kind of time with God, that I don’t want to spend time in study, that sometimes just to put on some quiet music and to turn down the lights and spend time in prayer, sometimes just fussing at God for things that are frustrating me… just unplug the phone and turn of the television, and everything else, just spending that time with God is so helpful for me emotionally and I’m able to come out of that feeling very refreshed and renewed. I know that’s something that would have to be different for different people, but I know that’s something that works very well for me.

BETTY: It’s a great idea.

BRIAN: Well, and for me I take that spiritual time playing the piano. I now have a piano in my home that I can play on a daily basis and that is my centering. So I think that’s a good suggestion is just to find something that we each can do to just connect with our spiritual side so that we can come back at the world fresh. Betty Hancock, I thank you so much for being part of GCN Radio today. I think you’ve given us some great food for thought and some excellent advice.

BETTY: Well, thank you. I really am glad to be here and it’s been a pleasure.

JUSTIN: Thanks so much.

BRIAN: Well, as always you can listen to us online, any time: http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio and send some e-mail to gcnradio@gaychristian.net. I’m Brian…

JUSTIN: …and I’m Justin.

BRIAN: We’ll talk to you later.