GCN Radio - March 31, 2006
Transcribed by MyckeyD

To listen to this episode, visit http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio

[GCN Radio Intro]

BRIAN: Friday! Is here! And we are, too! GCN Radio, again!

JUSTIN: [Laughs] Another week has come and gone.

BRIAN: So, a couple of weeks ago, Justin, we were talking about movies, which we frequently talk about on this show.

JUSTIN: Yeah.

BRIAN: And we were talking about how, of course, Crash won for best picture and neither of us had seen it at that point, now I understand you have seen it.
What is Crash, anyway?

JUSTIN: I took a little time to see it last weekend. Because we had talked about on a previous show that Brokeback Mountain was a lot of peoples' favorite going in. That they thought it was going to take the Oscar, and that there was some discussion that maybe Crash won out over Brokeback simply because some of the members of the Academy weren't willing to watch Brokeback because it was a gay-themed film.

BRIAN: Yeah.

JUSTIN: That was the rumor. But I said, you know, at that time, when we talked about it on the show, I wanted to reserve judgment. And now that I've seen Crash, I have to say - and I'm scared to express my opinion because we might get angry listener's responses, but this is just my opinion - I think Crash deserved the Oscar.

BRIAN: For people like myself, who are living under a rock and all of us under the rock, can you give us a synopsis, just a brief overview of what the film is about?

JUSTIN: Crash is, sort of, a few days in the life, if you will, of a number of different characters from a number of different races, a number of different ethnic backgrounds who are coming together. Each one of them comes in with his or her own perceptions about race and about other characters and how they're going to be treated, and then how they in turn treat others. I thought it was a very powerful film.

BRIAN: Terrific!

JUSTIN: So, it's the sort of film you can watch and discuss, and re-watch and discuss again, and re-watch and discuss again...

BRIAN: Because it's just so packed with stuff, and information and meaning?

JUSTIN: It is. It's packed with a lot of stuff, and after I watched it, I had a conversation with a friend of mine, and we just talked about the themes in the film and talked about some of the characters. Why did the characters choose to behave in this way? You know, what if this character had responded to the situation differently would this situation have turned out differently? So, a really fascinating film! I enjoyed it.

BRIAN: Excellent. I really need to get out and see more movies!

JUSTIN: Yeah!

BRIAN: [Laughs] It seems like, whenever we discuss movies, I seem to kind of get really quiet, because I'm very busy with my job, actually, and I've got activities in the evening. So, I just don't have a lot of time to see a lot of movies.

JUSTIN: If you're living life instead of seeing movies, then that's a good thing. But if you're just working all the time like I usually do, then that's not a good thing.

BRIAN: But see you find the time to watch movies. And, well, how do you do that?

JUSTIN: Well, but you know, that was like the only thing I did other than work. All week other than work, I worked and worked and worked and then I saw two movies last weekend. And I was really kind of impressed with myself that I could take the time off. [Laughs]

BRIAN: That's great. That's terrific. Well, speaking of terrific. We have a terrifically awesome guest week that you are going to tell us about.

JUSTIN: We do have an awesome guest this week. Her name is Candice Chellew-Hodge. And for the past 10 years or so she has been running an Christian online magazine called Whosoever. She's an awesome, awesome person. She's here with us today. Hey Candace, how are you?

BRIAN: Candace!

CANDACE: I'm doing good. Thanks for having me guys! I appreciate it.

BRIAN: Glad to have you along. I like to ask our guests, a little of their story. I mean, we all have coming out stories, but I think like people like you who are "working" in ministry, have a "special" coming out story because you have been inspired to make this your life "work." Tell us a little of how you came out in the context of being Christian and then just how that inspired you to get into ministry?

CANDACE: I was born into a nice, pleasant, WASP-ish Southern Baptist family.

JUSTIN: [Chuckles]

CANDACE: My father was a Southern Baptist minister. So I LITERALLY grew up in the church. I can remember playing with my G.I. Joes... [Clears throat and laughs]

BRIAN and JUSTIN: [Laughter]

CANDACE: ...in the church! You know running up and down the aisles. You know, literally the sanctuary was my playground. So church has just been part of me forever and ever and ever, as long as I can remember. Um, well that shattered in two ways. First of all, my father divorced my mother when I was nine-years old and that's not supposed to happen to a Southern Baptist family! And so it really shattered my faith in the church, in theology, in ministers in general--which is really ironic when you stop to think about, you know, where I've ended up! [Laughs] You know being a minister.

BRIAN: Wow! Yeah.

CANDACE: It really shattered my faith at a very tender age. And so you know... Of course, my mother kept us going to church, and this and that. But when I was sixteen I realized what all those feelings that I had been having, and I actually put a name to it. Actually the way I got the "name" for what I was feeling, was Rolling Stone did a cover story, back when I was sixteen-years old, about lesbianism. And I had never heard that word before. I had subscribed to Rolling Stone when I was a teenager because I was into the music and this arrived at my doorstep. And I immediately ripped the cover off of it because I didn't want my mother to see it! [Laughs]

BRIAN: [Laughs]

JUSTIN: Ahhhh! Wow.

CANDACE: I read that story, I could probably quote from it still today because I read it so many times! And saw myself and said, "YES, THAT'S IT and THAT'S THE WORD! Oh, my god!" [Laughs] So it was just a revelation. And then the next revelation was, "Oh...well then I can't be Christian." I mean this was so deeply ingrained. I don't remember my father ever delivering a homophobic sermon. I don't ever remember him talking about that from the pulpit. But there's just that "knowing," you know what I mean?

JUSTIN: Right.

CANDACE: That it's so deeply ingrained in the religion you grew up in.

BRIAN: It's in your bones. You're taught, "Hey, this is bad."

CANDACE: YES! Exactly. And in the Southern Baptist religion, you know, shoot, smoking and drinking could get you sent to hell, my god, what does lesbianism do? Is there a level below hell I don't know about? [Laughs]

BRIAN and JUSTIN: [Laughs]

CANDACE: That must be it. I told my mother. I said, "Mom, I think this is what's happening." She said, "It just might just be a phase. Don't do anything." I'm like, "Well, okay. The opportunity was not there any ways!" [Laughter] So like, whatever. So eighteen I met my first girlfriend. I came back and said, "Hey mom, her name is Paige." She said the greatest thing. My mother and I had the Bible argument when I was very ill prepared for it in my teen years. We agreed to disagree. But she said to me, she said, "I love you, you're my daughter. You're always welcome in my house."

JUSTIN: Wow.

BRIAN: Wow, it's a blessing to have that kind of response from a parent!

CANDACE: Yeah. It was just amazing, because I've known other people who've been kicked out of the house. My ex-girlfriend was kicked out of the house, my first girlfriend when her parents found out, you know. I've seen the horror story. But my mother had always been very accepting. She really doesn't want to talk about it. But, ever since then, all of my partners she's loved, she seems to have loved more than me! [Laughs]

BRIAN and JUSTIN: [Laughter in the background]

CANDACE: So her actions speak louder than words. She's always been very accepting. But that put me on a path towards trying to reconcile my spirituality and my sexuality, of course, because I basically said, "You know, forget God. Okay, if God does not love me I don't love God. You know that can be a two-way street."

BRIAN: But you came back.

CANDACE: Well...and it was really...[Sighs]...my first girlfriend really loved drama. You know, she was one of those, you know, dyke "drama stars." [Laughs] And we had a series of "crises" that took place in our relationship. And she decided that she wanted to go back to church; she was raised Southern Baptist as well. She decided she wanted to go back to church, and I'm like, "well you're going alone, babe! Because, I ain't settin' foot in another church!" You know, "I've heard what they say about me and God, and I'm not doing it." So we were living in Atlanta at the time and she got Creative Loafing, which was one of the free papers that circulates. And there was a story in there about a Metropolitan Community Church in Atlanta. And she was like, "I want to go!" And I said, "See ya later!" [Chuckles] And she finally talked me into going. And we went to this church. It was the first time I had set foot in church since I was probably like seventeen; since my mother finally said, you know, "You can decide whether or not you want to go to church with me, that's fine." I hadn't set foot in church, and this, I was probably 21 or 22 years old, when I finally set foot back in a church.

BRIAN: What did she say, I'm just curious? What did she say to get you to go back in?

CANDACE: You know, I really don't remember what convinced me. Other than she probably just nagged me to death and I went, "OKAY, FINE! [Laughs] If you'll SHUT UP, I'll go!" [Laughs] I'm sure that was it. There were no magic words, it was probably just a lot of arm twisting.

JUSTIN: Now, MCC, in case any of our listeners aren't familiar with it, is a denomination that focuses specifically on ministry to the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered community. Was that something for you at that point that was, I mean, did that seem strange?

CANDACE: Oh, it was completely odd! Well, um, my first Sunday at that church, I cried! I sat at the pulpit and cried, because there was a guy up there in a collar--well, first was weird, because Southern Baptists don't wear clerical garb [Laughs]--there was a guy up there in a collar talking about how God loves gay people. It was just like, It was music to my ears.

BRIAN: Wow.

CANDACE: It was like, suddenly, I felt like I had come home. It wasn't really hard for me to accept that God loved me. It was very hard for me to get past the "Bible stuff." Its, its, its...[Sighs]...my journey isn't really unique in that way. You can go "okay, I believe God loves me, BUT...."

JUSTIN: Um-hmm?

CANDACE: "...the Bible says all of this."

JUSTIN: Um-hmm.

CANDACE: And then you have to start making peace with the scripture.

JUSTIN: Yes.

CANDACE: And so, when I first started, I thought, "Oh, they're twisting the scripture." I mean, it's the same thing that they say to us now, "Oh you're twisting the scripture and it doesn't really say that. You're making it say things it doesn't say. Because, I started reading all this stuff; and all of those, the books and the tracts and what was going on. We didn't have the internet back then. [Laughs] What did we DO before we had the internet? I have no idea?

JUSTIN: I KNOW! [Laughs]

CANDACE: Really! So I actually had to read BOOKS! I couldn't go online to find stuff, it was really weird. So I started a "study" of the scriptures. And I finally came around to being convinced that, you know, I hadn't been told the whole truth about what the Bible says. [Laughs] There were a lot more nuances to the scriptures than any preacher had ever expounded upon from the pulpit. And so I really arrived at a place where I was okay with the scripture, I was okay that God loved me. And you know there are those Southern Baptist tapes that sometimes play in my own head, like, "Are you sure this is right?"

BRIAN: Was this a "gradual" process for you? Or, was there an "epiphany" moment when you woke up and said, "Yeah, I'm an okay person under God, God does love me"?

CANDACE: Well, I think it's gradual and I think it's still in process. Like I said, those old tapes sometimes still play. I still haven't gotten to the point, where I can say with uttermost confidence say, "I am completely right and every one else is completely wrong." Because, you know, I don't know. I know how God has moved in my life. And I know that God loves me and has put me on a path, and has given me a ministry and a calling, and THAT is completely right.

JUSTIN: Hmm.

CANDACE: So it's still in process. I'm still trying to erase those old tapes. That sometimes I look around and go, "well, gee, if everybody is so against me, you know, maybe something's wrong." [Laughs]

JUSTIN: Yeah, it's hard to be "going against the flow" as it were.

CANDACE: Yeah, and sometimes it gets tiring where you just go, "God, I wish I could not have these problems! If I could just marry a man, and all this stuff would go away!" You know?

JUSTIN: Yeah. Brian, you and I, we've never had those kinds of problems?

BRIAN: Never!

CANDACE: [Laughter]

BRIAN: You know, my mom, let's see, how many times have I heard, you know, "Brian, do you like that girl?"

CANDACE: [Consoling tone] Yeah.

JUSTIN: [Laughter]

BRIAN: And I'm like, "Mom, we've had this talk."

CANDACE: I had this interesting identity crisis. I met this transman who was the most beautiful person I had ever seen. And I was falling in love with this person. And I had this big identity crisis. I'm like, "Oh my god, if I'm a lesbian, and I fall in love with a transman, what does that make me?" [Laughs]

BRIAN: [Laughter]

CANDACE: It reminded me that my older sister had said, "You just haven't met the right man yet." I went, "Oh that would be perfect." I could take this person to my sister and say, "You were right! I haven't met the right man yet because she was still a woman!" [Laughs]

BRIAN: [Laughter]

JUSTIN: Nooo!

CANDACE: "Now, she's a he, you're right, it's the right man!" [Laughter]

JUSTIN: Oh my goodness.

CANDACE: Her head would have exploded. It would have been worth it just for that!

JUSTIN: Yeah really. So how did things get started with Whosoever, and with your whole ministry there?

CANDACE: Well, Whosoever made its debut in 1996. But it was probably a year or so before then that it sort of occurred to me. I spent most of my professional life in journalism. Doing radio and television, a little bit of newspaper. And I was familiar with the publishing industry and how that all worked. And I kept reading--I love to read Christian magazines. So I like to read Christianity Today, I read Moody's years ago. But it was hard to get through any Christian magazine without being bashed, at some point. At some point you're going to turn the page and there's something about gay people having three heads and wanting to destroy the world. Okay. [Laughter] So it's like you're scared to turn the page; you're turning the page really slowly, trying to peak around.

BRIAN: Right.

CANDACE: "Ooww! Are we bashed on this page? AHH, that one's safe. OHH but it might be the next page!" So I could never get through any of those publications without feeling attacked in some way. I kept thinking to myself, "Wouldn't it be nice? Wouldn't it just be cool to have a magazine just for gay and lesbian Christians that, you know, you were never bashed, you never had to deal with any of that rhetoric, and you could be affirmed and know that God loves you, and we tackle all these great issues, and do spiritual growth...yeah, man! That's a great idea." And then I go, "Well, God, when is that going to start?" [Laughter]

BRIAN: [Laughs] Yeah!

CANDACE: [Thinking out loud] "I'm sure there are a lot of people out there thinking the same thing. You know, come on! I can't wait for when it comes out!"

I just kept saying to God, "That would be a cool idea, wouldn't it?" And God would agree! [Laughs] That would be a cool idea. And then I went, "OH! You mean I need to--OH! Oh, okay! Finally I realized.

BRIAN: Funny how those things work out that way.

CANDACE: Yeah. It wasn't just a great idea. It was what I was supposed to be doing.

BRIAN: I call that term "being voluntold"! [Chuckles]

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

CANDACE: VOLUNTOLD, yes! [Laughs] There you go! It's one of those cosmic two-by-fours that hits you upside the head. You go, "OH! You mean, Oh, I gotcha! I'm supposed to be doing that."

JUSTIN: Um-hmm.

CANDACE: So in 1996 I put the first issue together, and I fully intended for it to be a print magazine, but I have money issues. Which means I can't sell ads! [Sighs and laughs] Because, I can't ask people for money! So the print issue only lasted about four issues. And by that time I had been working with an Internet company, and I actually learned how to do Internet stuff. So I put it all online because it was cheaper, and the overhead's less, so. AND, it was the added bonus of reaching more people!

BRIAN and JUSTIN: Yeah?

CANDACE: You know, it's nice to hold a little magazine in your hand. But, getting it out into stores and getting it into people's hands that way without a massive distribution mechanism behind you was really tough. So, once I put it on the web, I actually had more readers.

BRIAN: How is Whosoever.org different from other gay Christian websites, say you know, GCN or Christian Gays, or others? Because there are now other gay Christian websites, what sets Whosoever apart from some of the other things on the Internet?

CANDACE: Well, I think, the shear depth and breadth of information. You know, GCN and some of the other Christian websites have concentrated on building community. And Whosoever has started to do a little bit of that. But that wasn't the main focus when we began. It was basically to get the "information that you need" to reconcile your sexuality and your spirituality into the hands of people that need it. And that was really our focus, was to write articles with meaning, write articles with depth, and really get to the heart of what it means to reconcile ourselves, and get back to God.

JUSTIN: Well, it's a great resource, it really is. And for any of our listeners who haven't checked it out before, I encourage you to go to whosoever.org and take a look at some of the articles there. I noticed, because you have articles and things there written by a number of different people, and so you really get the different perspectives and people can read some of these different things and they may agree with what one person says in one place and disagree with what someone else says in another place. But it's a continuing dialogue there of ideas.

CANDACE: Right. And when I started it, I did write a "What We Believe" section. And if you go to that section, it's not really a rigid doctrinal statement.

BRIAN: I went to that the first time I visited it. It's very clear and it's all very scripture based.

CANDACE: Yes, but what I've always tried to do with Whosoever is give that "spectrum." Because there are people who write for Whosoever that are very conservative and I don't agree--I may not agree with their views, but their voice is important. Because, that may be the person that connects with someone. You know, I've sort of appointed myself as "Head Heretic." I'm the voice that's more on the more liberal side. And that, my voice, might be the one that connects with some people, and there are people right down the middle with their theology, and that might connect with people. I'm just trying to reach as many people as possible. And as Paul says you "become all things to all people", and that's how you reach them. So I'm trying to have Whosoever to be all things to all people whether you're on the liberal end of the spectrum or the more conservative end of the spectrum, you'll find something in Whosoever that speaks to you.

JUSTIN: Well, I think that's great! And, of course, I noticed that since Whosoever got started in 1996 you've got your Tenth Anniversary issue coming up this year.

CANDACE: Yup, In July.

BRIAN: Congratulations!

CANDACE: Thank you!

BRIAN: I think one of the biggest chasms in our society and in our world still is between the Church and GLBT people. In your view and in your experience, what do you think it's going to take to get beyond that? How do we close that gap and come together?

CANDACE: Well, honestly, I think it's continuing to do what we do. I mean, even if you look ten years ago when Whosoever began, there weren't as many in-roads to the mainstream churches made by GLBT people as there are now. And how did we make those in-roads? We made those in-roads by "being involved," by "being engaged," by staying in our mainstream churches and having a presence and showing to other people there that God does love us, and that God has blessed us and that we show forth fruit of the Spirit, and how can you deny that? That having gays and lesbians and bisexuals and trans-gendered people as full members of the church is not a grace too far. You know, that God's Grace extends and covers even us. And, that we are part of the body of Christ. So I think we do that by simply persisting in showing the fruit of the Spirit to the church and to church leaders. And I think that at some point, they have no choice but to acknowledge it.

BRIAN: Excellent, I think that's great advice.

JUSTIN: Awesome.

BRIAN: We could do, you know, three or four shows just with you. You're amazing! It's not surprising to me that you have background in Journalism and Radio. You have a wonderful voice, AND people can hear your voice on your GODcast!

CANDACE: Yes, I've got a GODcast.

BRIAN: Whosoever.org has their own Podcast/Godcast going on that you could listen to.

JUSTIN: To get to that people go to Whosoever.org and click Audio Whosoever. Is that right?

CANDACE: Well, Audio Whosoever is more of my sermons. But if you just scroll further down the page it'll say subscribe to the podcast, and you can go to that page and listen.

JUSTIN: Well, there it is! I was looking at the wrong place.

CANDACE: There you go!

BRIAN: Terrific.

JUSTIN: Cool stuff.

BRIAN: Well, Candace, we are certainly glad you could join us here on GCN Radio. Thanks for taking the time and sharing some of your story with us.

CANDACE: Well, thank you Brian. Thank you Justin. I really appreciate it.

JUSTIN: Well! Brian! Once again, we have not gotten to the "Question of the Week."

BRIAN: We've taken the show up with this wonderful discussion. So we are going to hold those questions until next time.

JUSTIN: We've been compiling responses, listener responses, and I promise we will get to them on a future show. But in the mean time, if you have any thoughts on the show anything that you want to tell us, if you want to respond to what I said about Crash versus Brokeback Mountain--here it comes Brian. I know I'm going to get it! But if you want to respond and tell us why Brokeback deserved the Oscar, or why you think Crash deserved the Oscar, or why you're dumbfounded that Three 6 Mafia won an Oscar, you can, or anything else about the show that you want to talk about...

BRIAN: Absolutely! Anything on your mind.

JUSTIN: Give us a call! Toll free 1-888-GAY-4GOD. Our regular listeners are tired of hearing that, but I have to say it, 888.

BRIAN: Yes, 888-GAY-4GOD!

JUSTIN: 1-888-GAY-4GOD, you can leave a message there. There's a place to do that, and we just might play your response on a future show.

BRIAN: You can also send us an e-mail directly to gcnradio@gaychristian.net and we'll be glad to take a look at everything we receive. We read it all and we respond to it all as well. So just go ahead and drop us a line in any way, shape or form.

JUSTIN: That's right! And I have heard from a few people who are a little confused about how to get old shows, people who are maybe a little new to the whole podcasting thing. So let me just give you a quick lesson here. If you are using iTunes software, which it sounds like a lot of our listeners are, in your podcast list for GCN Radio, if you click that little arrow, you should see a whole list of recent shows, and the ones that you haven't downloaded yet, you can click the "get" button, and it will download those for you automatically. But if you'd like to hear some of our shows before that period - because those are just the recent ones - just head over to our website at www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio and you can see a list of every show you've ever done...

BRIAN: Oh yes.

JUSTIN: Go back to the ones when we didn't know what we were doing...

BRIAN: [laughter]

JUSTIN: Some of them are crazy, some of them, we're just on top of our game and some of them, who knows. But you can listen to the old shows and you just do that right on the website, you scroll down to any of them and you click "download" or "listen" - I forget what the link says - but you click that little link and you can hear the show right there.

BRIAN: So, we've got great stuff coming up next week and in the future so stay with us! But, for this week, I'm Brian...

JUSTIN: ...and I'm Justin!

BRIAN: Talk to you next week!