GCN Radio - April 4, 2008
Transcribed by neo_dave

To listen to this episode, visit http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio

[GCN Radio Intro]

JUSTIN: Welcome once more to the show! I'm Justin, and Nate is not here because he's in Japan, so filling in for him we have the ever-fabulous Nikki joining us by phone. Nikki, hey!

NIKKI: Hello, how are you?

JUSTIN: I'm good! How are you?

NIKKI: I am super-awesome!

JUSTIN: Super-awesome?

NIKKI: Super-awesome! It's a good day.

JUSTIN: Really? Why is it a good day?

NIKKI: Well, I don't have to work, and it's sunny outside, so it's a good day! And I'm here, so it's all great.

JUSTIN: Well awesome! I'm glad you're here.

NIKKI: Well I'm glad I'm here, and I'm glad you're here!

JUSTIN: And I'm glad that I'm here! And I'm glad that you're glad....whatever.

NIKKI: Yeah!

JUSTIN: So, this is your first time on the show...

NIKKI: This is my first time on the show!

JUSTIN: But you've been involved with GCN for a long time...

NIKKI: Yeah, I think off and on since about 2003.

JUSTIN: Yeah, that's like a million years. I was going to say a million years, and 2003 that's, you know...

NIKKI: That's pretty much a million years!

JUSTIN: Pretty much a million years. So it's about time we had you on the show, right?

NIKKI: I think so, now's a good time.

JUSTIN: Well thanks for filling in, because it's really boring if I'm hosting the show by myself, and there's no Brian, no Nate...

NIKKI: Well you'd kind of be talking to yourself, and I think that's probably pretty bad.

JUSTIN: It is. I've done it before but it's not fun

NIKKI: Yeah, well I'm here and it'll be cool

JUSTIN: Well thanks.

NIKKI: No problem

JUSTIN: And we really need more women on the show.

NIKKI: I agree. I think that's an excellent idea.

JUSTIN: I do too.

NIKKI: Because women are pretty awesome.

JUSTIN: I agree. And now you're here, so...

NIKKI: Yay!

JUSTIN: Yay! The most random opening to a GCN radio ever! So since most of our listeners have absolutely no earthly idea who you are, and they're like "who's this random Nikki who's on GCN radio today?", I guess we should probably talk a little about your background. So you are....gosh, you've been involved in GCN as a ministry for a while in a number of ways - I mean, you're the voice on our call-in line: when people call in, they hear you.

NIKKI: Oh wow, you still have that?

JUSTIN: Yeah, it's still you!

NIKKI: Oh wow, that's really cool - I'd totally forgotten about that! I guess I'm the voice

JUSTIN: You're the voice!

NIKKI: That's so neat!

JUSTIN: You're the voice, and you also are one of the moderators over on our community message board at gaychristian.net

NIKKI: Yes I am. That's been for about a year, a year and a half that I've been a moderator. It's a good experience - I enjoy doing it.

JUSTIN: Well, I enjoy having you do it. So, tell the listeners a little bit about you, let's talk about you! Can we talk about you?

NIKKI: Of course we can talk about me! I love talking about me! Well, I've been on GCN like I said since about 2003, I'm 27 now so I was 23 then, and that makes me really old....

JUSTIN: I'm older than you, so let's not even start there!

NIKKI: Okay, well anyway, I'm straight, obviously - anyone who reads my profile will know that - but I actually found GCN kind of in a weird way. It was a time that I wasn't really working, and so I was on the computer all day just googling random people; and back in the day - I'm sure maybe some of the members know Nathan Gunter that wrote the Queer as Faith column...

JUSTIN: Nate was one of our first guests on the show, I think.

NIKKI: He was. Nathan and I actually went to high school together, and in high school I had a huge crush on Nathan - like, super crazy. So, I was just looking around on the internet one day and thought, "I've not heard anything from Nathan Gunter, I wonder how he's doing!" So, I googled him, and I didn't know that he had come out or anything like that, and I actually one of the things that came up on the Google search engine was an article that he had written for the QAF column. It was surprising to find out he was gay, but it wasn't surprising...if that makes sense.

JUSTIN: It was surprising, but not surprising?!

NIKKI: Yeah, like "oh, that's cool", you know? So I kind of started looking around the website, and there was no "oh, a-ha" moment that I'm going to join, I thought "this is cool" - a way to support Nathan and see what it's all about; so I joined, and here I am!

JUSTIN: So, GCN was pretty young then, 2003.

NIKKI: Yeah, I was actually member 149, I still remember my member number back when they had member numbers. That was a long time ago.

JUSTIN: Wow, we only had 148 members and now we're well over 8000.

NIKKI: It's so amazing.

JUSTIN: It is, it's crazy. So, here you are, this straight woman, joining this organisation for LGBT Christians, did you ever wonder "why am I here?"

NIKKI: You know it's funny because people ask me that all the time, and I've never really just wondered. I think I've always known I was okay with it being okay to be Christian and gay, it's never ever seemed wrong to me. I grew up pretty much Southern Baptist from the time I was 13 on, and my mom's really liberal, and I was involved with the gay community some with my mom because she had friends that were gay, and it was always just okay with me. When I actually became a Christian and started going to Church, you know...Churches talk about homosexuality being wrong, and I remember sitting in Church, listening and thinking "that's just silly", God doesn't think that way, and it's odd that people would interpret God thinking homosexuality is wrong. It's never been a complicated thing for me - I think God loves everybody no matter who they are and what they're doing, and I don't see it being wrong, there's no biblical thing that stands out, but I know that God is the God of love, and he loves everybody, and that's all that I need to know. It's kind of simple for me, and that's what I tell people; and some people understand, and some people don't. And that's okay.

JUSTIN: I think that's really awesome; that sound like the Holy Spirit working in your heart and giving you a clear sense of how you can minister God's love to the world, regardless of what anybody says.

NIKKI: Yeah, I totally agree. I think that even though I'm not really active in the GLTB community outside of GCN, I think this is what I'm doing - being a moderator and being a part and being supportive that I think is more what God wants me to do, and what God wants me to be. So, this is really cool and every day I'm so amazed I get to be part of a really awesome community.

JUSTIN: Well you certainly have a lot of friends and a lot of fans over at GCN, so I'm sure there's going to be a whole Nikki-fan base ready to hear the show.

NIKKI: You should start a club.

JUSTIN: A club? A Nikki fan club?

NIKKI: Yeah, they can send me shoes. I wear size 9, in case anybody's wondering. I like the colour green, so if anyone wants to send me shoes, that'd be so awesome!

JUSTIN: You're a big shoe fan.

NIKKI: I am a huge, huge, ridiculously huge shoe fan. It's crazy that I used to have over 150 airs of shoes...

JUSTIN: Wow, 150 pairs?

NIKKI: Yes. It was pretty wicked. That's why I'm broke now - a lot of my money and ran out my credit; and they actually all got stolen...

JUSTIN: Oh no!

NIKKI: I was pretty bummed about it for a good six months, but I got over it and started to build up my collection. I probably have about 40 pairs of shoes now...

JUSTIN: So, if people want to contribute to the Nikki shoe collection, they can just send you a message, huh?

NIKKI: They can send me a message and we can work something out.

JUSTIN: Okay! Well, you know I thought I was doing really well, because I have never been much of a shoe person, I've always had like one pair of casual shoes that I wear all the time, but my friends have told me I need more shoes - so I finally bought a couple of extra pairs of shoes, so now I have three pairs of casual shoes I wear all the time.

NIKKI: You need more.

JUSTIN: Do I?! I don't have the money though

NIKKI: There are plenty of ways. You can totally go and buy a lot of shoes on a cheap budget. I'm pretty cheap, and I manage to have 40 pairs of shoes. I should take you shopping.

JUSTIN: Really?

NIKKI: Yeah, I should.

JUSTIN: You'd have to come to NC to take me shopping

NIKKI: Yeah, it'd be fun!

JUSTIN: Okay, alright, well come do that and we'll record a GCN radio about it! So we've got some listener comments....Nikki, did you hear the show recently where Nate and I had a listener who wrote in that they had listened to every show that we've ever done in like a week?

NIKKI: Oh wow!

JUSTIN: Yeah, it was kind of crazy. So, we talked about this on a recent show, and so this listener wrote in... This is James, and James writes:

Hey Guys,

Yes. There are others out here who have listened to all of the shows consecutively. I had a 30 hour to road trip to make, so I downloaded all of the shows, so over the course of three days, I listened to them while I was driving. I was unable to make notes, but I still found each show to be a blessing. It has strengthened my faith and walk with God, it's encouraging to know that I'm not alone. Thank you so much for this ministry.

Well, thanks James. What do you think about this Nikki: people are taking road trips and listening to GCN radio?

NIKKI: I think that's really cool - you should feel really popular! I think...wow. It's exciting to think that people are downloading it and listening to it and being blessed... it's really amazing, and I'm glad they're telling you about it. It's so amazing that this ministry's going so far.

JUSTIN: It's really amazing to me...yeah. I just can't believe that people are listening to all the shows at once. I would get so tired of listening to my voice!

NIKKI: Oh, I'm sure I've tried to listen to more than one show at one time and I think maybe I've listened to three shows in a row...but I don't think I've even listened to all of them. Wow.

JUSTIN: I've listened to all of them, but I recorded them all, so...that's kind of different. Okay, so here's a comment from Jason about last week's show with Kim and Shawn of the Trans Youth family allies. Jason says:

I would like to say thanks for having Kim and Shawn on the show Justin - I got lots of info from them and now I know more about it. Thanks, and I'm loving the radio show more and more. Love you all.

Well we love you, Jason.

NIKKI: Yay for Jason!

JUSTIN: Yay Jason! That was really a great show - for those who haven't heard it and have questions about transgender issues, we had a great show with Kim and Shawn. It was longer than some of our other recent shows, just because there was so much info in it; and we have a bunch of questions about trans issues that I'm going to talk about on another show, because we didn't get to ask them all of our questions. I really enjoyed that, they were great people. Here's a comment from Vivian; Vivian writes:

Hi, I just want to say that I love your show, and it's blessed me in many ways.

By the way, there's a comment thread here Nikki, and if people say nice things about the show then I'm more likely to read their comments.

NIKKI: I think that's a hint!

JUSTIN: That's not really true; these just happen to be comments that I picked randomly. Anyway, so Vivian says:

I have a question that could be of interest to the listeners. Do you feel that God makes soul mates for Gays and Lesbians? My girlfriend and I recently split up after four years, and I've always felt that she was my soul mate. Even after half a year of being without her, there is an energy between us, sSomething unexplainable. We cried and prayed together; we faced our deepest fears together; we were one, spiritually, emotionally, and mentally. She's going through devastation right now, because she's dealing with past abuse, and has pushed me away. I still love her, but I'm wondering at this point if God makes specific soul mates for GLBT people. If he does, I believe in my heart that he'll bring her back to me in His time. What's your opinion on pre-determined soul mates? Thanks so much - keep up the good work.

That is a loaded question!

NIKKI: That was a very loaded question!

JUSTIN: It seems to me that there are really two things that I would like to talk about in response to this. The first one is this question that Vivian's asking about soul mates, and the second one is the question of this particular relationship situation. I think that has to do with more than just soul mates.

But first of all, Nikki, what do you think about soul mates? I mean, if God makes soul mates for gay and lesbian folks then I would say that God has soul mates for straight folks as well, so I don't think it's specific to one group or the other. Do you think we have predetermined soul mates? Or do you think you find someone you can make it work with?

NIKKI: It's a good question. That's actually something I've been exploring in my personal life. I really do think that there is someone for everybody. I think that they always say "God has created someone special for you, and you just have to wait to find them" and I agree. I think that God wants everyone to be happy at some point, and I think that God creates someone for everybody. Whether they're able to find them is one thing; but I really think God has someone for everybody, and eventually they're going to find that person and it's going to be amazing. And it doesn't have to be with being being straight or gay; God wants that for everybody.

JUSTIN: It's really hard though, when you're single and you're out there looking for that right guy or that right girl, and they just don't seem anywhere to be found.

NIKKI: That's really true. I personally think that my soul mate is hiding from me right now (!); I would just say that for people that don't think that somebody's out there, I would encourage you to just keep believing and keep hoping. Sometimes, you find it when you least expect it. That's sounds like a total cliche, and that's generally something I would roll my eyes at, but I think it makes sense. I think that if you're patient and keep doing what you're doing, and keep loving God, and try and serve and do the best you can that God's going to bless you, and you're going to find that person; and when it happens it'll be the best thing ever.

JUSTIN: I think you really do have to be willing to stop looking. I mean, not that you have to stop looking entirely, but as long as you're focused on trying to find somebody...you know what I mean?

NIKKI: Yeah, you're so focused and trying to find that someone, trying to find that special person, you're just so focused, you're not going to find that person, it's generally not going to happen. But when you stop really looking and let other things in and start living your life, just over the natural course of things, you'll find that person.

JUSTIN: When you're really focused on trying to find someone, you can come across as kind of desperate. And that's not attractive! Being self-confident and having stuff going on in your life, and being involved in projects, and trying to achieve something positive in the world and in your life; and having friends, and all of those kind of things that are very attractive to people, so the more you're involved in life, the more likely you are to find somebody.

NIKKI: Right.

JUSTIN: But, I don't know how I feel about the whole soul mate thing. I've gone back and forth on this...does God have somebody specific picked out for me? Or, is God waiting to see who I'm going to choose, you know? And I feel like you can make arguments either way, and the bible doesn't seem to give specific guidance one way or the other, so I don't really know which way I look at it, but I do believe that if you feel a call in your spirit to be in a relationship, then I really believe that there's someone out there for you. At least, I certainly hope so! I get tired of being single. There's another part of this that I kind of want to talk about, because in Vivian's situation, she was with somebody for four years, and then they split up. It sounds like her girlfriend is the one who broke up with her, and Vivian is really convinced that this girl and her were soul mates; but I really wonder...it's very tempting when you're in a relationship and everything seems really great on your end, and then the other person breaks it off...it's really tempting to go "oh, well this person was the right person for me, and I just need to convince them to come back", or something. And I'm not sure that's the healthiest way to go about it.

NIKKI: Yeah, I would agree. If things are great on your end and not great on someone else's end, then they may not be your soul mate, and that's something you have to deal with. Maybe that person is their soul mate. I hope that for Vivian, but if it's not then I hope that Vivian is able to recognise that, and deal with it and keep going.

JUSTIN: Yeah, well sometimes when a relationship ends, you think "this was the best relationship I could ever have; and now that this person doesn't want to be with me, it's over - I'm never going to fall in love again; I'm never going to meet someone as wonderful for me as this person was". But you may be really surprised. There maybe someone who hasn't come into your life yet, or even someone who is in your life but you haven't really opened your eyes to them yet, who may be way better for you than this person that you can't stop thinking about. And it may be that one of the things that you need to do is to move beyond this relationship and trust God to bring the right person into your life, at the right time.

NIKKI: I think that's absolutely correct. I think that when you're in that situation, even though it's really bad right then and you release that...and you need to remember that God always have your best interests at heart, even though you might not think that at the time - he always does, and he's always going to look out for you. They say "when God closes a door he opens a window" or something like that, and I think that she just has to keep remembering and stay positive, and that God has something amazing that you have to wait for. Sometimes it's really frustrating, but it will come.

JUSTIN: And I can't say about Vivian's relationship, because it may be that this is the right relationship and that God's going to bring these two women back together, but I think you always have to be open to the possibility that God may have a window or a door somewhere else to open for you, that you just need to trust and watch for that; because in the movies, it's really romantic when the rejected person does everything to try and win their love back, and stands outside in the rain holding up the boom box, like John Cusack.

NIKKI: I love that movie!

JUSTIN: I mean, you think those things are really romantic, but in real life stuff like that can be really stalker-ish!

NIKKI: Yeah, that's kind of creepy, and why is this not a movie?!

JUSTIN: Right, so you just have to be really careful, because it's really, really easy to get stuck on the past and God may have something waiting in your future, but you can't be ready for it until you can move beyond the past. So, I just want to throw that out there to anyone who may be listening to the show today who's really struggling to move on beyond a past relationship that didn't work out. Don't allow yourself to get stuck there. God may have some really awesome plan for you in the future, and you have to be willing to move beyond that, and know that you can survive as an independent person, without this person that you used to be with. You do not need them. All you need is God, and I know that's really cliche, and it's really annoying to hear, but it's true. And if you find things in your life to get involved in, then before you know it, someone else will come into your life. That's the way it happens. It seems like it takes forever, but when it actually happens it's when you least expect it.

That's my advice for the day!

NIKKI: Well I think you're right, and I really hope everything works out for Vivian, so Vivian if you're listening, my fingers are totally crossed for you, and I'll be praying for you.

JUSTIN: Definitely. So Nikki, have you ever had these relationships where you just can't move on? Because I definitely have.

NIKKI: Yeah, there was actually one big relationship: I was 19 and I met a guy and I thought I was going to marry him. Obviously, we're not married; and it's been almost ten years, and I still think about him probably every day.

JUSTIN: Wow.

NIKKI: I've not talked to him in nearly ten years, and I've actually tried to get in contact with him, but that relationship just ended badly, and he doesn't really want to speak to me, and I haven't been able to let that go; it's kind of hard when you think that someone's the one, and you really believe that wholeheartedly, it's kind of a blow to you, but slowly I'm starting to let it go. I think, obviously that if it was meant to be it would have already happened. But, I really do hope and feel and pray that God has something else for me. I would like it to happen soon! Don't get me wrong, I'm almost thirty, and so I'm ready!

JUSTIN: I am thirty!

NIKKI: Oh yeah, I totally forgot! But yeah, I think you have to let it go in order to be able to move on with your life, and in order for me to move on with my life I have to let this go. And, it's slowly starting to happen. I don't think about him every day anymore, and eventually I'm going to be able to let it go, because I have to be ready for when the awesome thing comes.

JUSTIN: Yeah, yeah. It's so hard though...man, it really is. Cos I dated someone years ago, that was a similar kind of situation. I absolutely thought we were going to get married, and when I got dumped in that relationship, that was just devastating. It was really devastating. And I went through a period of my life where I was really depressed. And, you know, you can't let your self-worth be locked up in another person.

NIKKI: I agree, because everyone is worth so much more than that. You just can't let yourself go down there. I call it going down the "shame spiral" - you just can't go down that way. You're so much more than this one thing, and this one relationship. I know I said this before, but God has your best interests at heart all the time. And, even though that situation didn't work out for you, and my situation didn't work out for me, God's got something amazing for the both of us. And it's going to be so cool when it happens, so it's exciting.

JUSTIN: Oh yeah. You know what was really dangerous that I did in that relationship? I was so convinced that this guy was my soul mate, that I spent pretty much all my time with him, and I didn't make a lot of effort to built other friendships; and when that relationship ended, I didn't have other friends to lean on, to get support in that difficult time. And I see a lot of other people make that mistake - gay and straight, where they just put all of themselves into a relationship and they don't invest time in other friendships and other relationships - like family relationships and stuff, outside of that one relationship. Because you're so convinced that "this is my soul mate, so I need to give my all to this person", and that's really unhealthy because if it ends, you don't have anyone to lean on, and you need that. You need to be able to go to your friends and cry to them, and vent all your frustration, and all of that.

NIKKI: I completely agree. I've kind of actually been in the same boat where I spent too much time wrapped up in wanting to be married; and when it ended, I was alone and had to find friends and sort my life out, and that was a hard lesson I had to learn, and I wouldn't waste that on anyone. Even though you want to be wrapped up in a relationship, you have to make sure that you have other friends and other means of support.

JUSTIN: Yeah. Well, you know, I love having this conversation with you Nikki, cos it's like you and I have similar experiences in these regards, and you're straight and I'm gay, so it's obviously not just a gay thing or a straight thing.

NIKKI: It's a life thing!

JUSTIN: You're right, it is, it's part of what it is to be human. So, we've been taking about some of the potential pitfalls in relationships, so now I would really like to turn that around. So, I'm going to ask all of our listeners this question: do you know a gay couple that really just inspires you? That gives hope that demonstrates what a committed, long term, Christian, gay couple ought to be. Tell us about this couple - it might even be your own relationship, but it could be anyone: anyone you know, a gay couple that just really could serve as an inspiration, and give hope to others, and demonstrate how a couple ought to be. Tell us about this couple, and tell us why they inspire you, or why you're really proud of this relationship.

And you can do that by calling us toll-free on 1-888-GAY-4-GOD. You can also send us a text response by going to our website at gaychristian.net/gcnradio, and putting your text response in the box there. That's also a great way to listen to all of our past shows, and subscribe through iTunes. We'd like to hear from you about gay couples that can really serve as an inspiration to others, and why that is.

SO, Nikki, thank you for joining us on the show today!

NIKKI: Thank you for having me, I've had a good time! It's been fun,

JUSTIN: Yeah, me too, you've been an awesome substitute host; we'll have to bring you on the show again.

NIKKI: that would be super!

JUSTIN: Well, until then, everyone, thanks for listening; we'll have a new show for you next Friday: the chairman of the board of GCN is going to be talking about some really cool stuff going on with GCN, so stay tuned for that! And, until then, whether you're single, in a relationship, side A, side B, gay, straight, whether you have one pair of shoes or ten thousand, remember this: Jesus died for you, no matter what anyone else tells you: God loves you.