GCN Radio - April 28, 2006
Transcribed by MyckeyD

To listen to this episode, visit http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio

BRIAN: Well, it's good to be back here on Friday. Thank you Justin, for letting me have the week off last week. Your show with Kennan was wonderful!

JUSTIN: Well, thanks.

BRIAN: All forty-four minutes and twenty-three seconds of it!

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

BRIAN: Holy dance remix, Batman! [Laughs]

JUSTIN: [Laughs] Well, we were really late with the show and that was because we ran into so many technical problems.

BRIAN: Aww!

JUSTIN: And so a lot of it had to be re-recorded and edited over and over again. Because I was recording Kennan through the Internet, there was a lot of background noise that got generated and at times it just became too much, and so some parts had to be redone. It just was...a nightmare trying to do that show.
[Laughs] So, we started...

BRIAN: Aww. I feel bad I was gone, but believe me, I was, I was--I guess it's no big secret that I work for an NPR affiliate. And the reason I was gone is because we were FUNDRAISING on our station. And believe me, you think that the audience hates fundraising; believe me, the STAFF hates it more!

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

BRIAN: There are twelve-hour days, and when I wasn't on the air "begging," I was answering phones and taking pledges.

JUSTIN: Aww!

BRIAN: Which, you know, I like talking to the listeners, and everything...

JUSTIN: Uh-huh...

BRIAN: ...but I don't like suspending peoples' programs that they like, and I don't like working twelve-hour days.

JUSTIN: Yeah, I don't blame you.

BRIAN: You guys had a great show. I learned a lot about movies and I have movies now that I can go see or rent.

JUSTIN: Well, you'll have to let us know on a future show if you see one of the movies that we recommended on the show last week and what you think of it.

BRIAN: And I do, and for the record, I like moves, I LOVE movies! In fact I saw--I had a friend in town--I saw three movies last weekend. So, it's just a matter of me finding the time to sit for two or three hours and watch movies. I wish I had more time, and that's the only thing.

JUSTIN: Oh well, I totally understand, believe me. So, any way, for any one of our listeners who missed last week's show because it wasn't up on Friday, it went up on Tuesday. But it's still there in the Podcasts and it's still there on our web site.

BRIAN: There you go. For those of you who ask for longer shows: You gave it to them last week. Good job, Justin!

JUSTIN: That's right!

BRIAN: All right!

JUSTIN: Next time it's late it'll be like an all-day long show.

BRIAN: The marathon show; "The GCN Marathon, the GCN Radio Marathon!"

JUSTIN: We can bring you in the middle of it to do fundraising.

BRIAN: Oh yeah, [In NPR voice] "And now, for a few moments of fundraising..." NAH! Oh my, my, my!

JUSTIN: Oh my. Interesting stuff happened this week. Wednesday of this week was the "National Day of Silence."

BRIAN: Mm-hmm. There's an organization on the web that promotes that, and I can't remember who...

JUSTIN: It's affiliated with GLSEN, the Gay-Lesbian-Straight Education Network, G-L-S-E-N.

BRIAN: That's right! That's right!

JUSTIN: And it is promoted as a way for students to make a statement about the treatment of GLBT individuals. Often, clubs in high schools and on college campuses who are gay-supportive, who will remain silent for the day. And it's simply a way of making a statement without speaking. And, um, that's how that started, and so for the past ten years, GLBT students and GLBT-supportive students have been remaining silent all day long on the Day of Silence as a way of making a statement without making a statement. So, of course, it wasn't long before some of the, um, [takes deep breath] "anti-gay" Christian groups to come up with a "protest"--of sorts--of the Day of Silence.

BRIAN: Called "The Day of Truth" is what they're calling that.

JUSTIN: "The Day of Truth!"

BRIAN: Now that seems to be a little newer than "The Day of Silence"

JUSTIN: I think it is. I'm not sure how long that has been going on.

BRIAN: And there was a report on NPR this week, people might have caught it, about this.

JUSTIN: [Suddenly bursts out in laughter] Can I just say one thing? [Laughs] I feel awful for saying this, Brian... [Begins infectious laughter]

BRIAN: That's okay! [Starts to chuckle]

JUSTIN: But I, I pulled up [Laughs] the Day of Truth web site on my computer to see if I could quickly find out how long it's been in existence, [Chuckling] this is the "anti-gay" day. This was on Thursday, The Day of Truth, because "truth will not be silenced" or something along those lines. They hand out cards apparently, you know, they're standing for truth, and whatnot. There is this Day of Truth shirt that you can get. And the model on the web sit as I'm pulling it up, who is this student wearing the Day of Truth shirt...looks kind of gay to me.

BRIAN: [Screams in Laughter]

JUSTIN: I don't want to slander any body; I don't know him so I'm not saying he is gay...

BRIAN: [Howling with Laughter]

JUSTIN: I'm just saying, that for a straight boy...he spent a lot of time on that hair!

BRIAN: [Laughing] Oh darn! I can't get to my computer from this angle, so, oh, my goodness!

JUSTIN: I just want to make that statement right now, that uh...[Starts laughing]

BRIAN: [In an official announcer's voice] "GCN Radio does not confirm or deny the..."

JUSTIN: [Laughs] That's a terrible thing to say, Brian, and if this were any one that people at GCN actually knew, then I wouldn't say anything. Because I think that it's not nice to "speculate" about other's sexuality or to "out" people. You know, I have very good "gaydar" and...

BRIAN: [Laughs]

JUSTIN: I can tell a lot of times when people are gay, and I'm usually right. Because, people, even they'll deny it and deny it and years down the road "Oh by the way..." I knew, I knew all along!

BRIAN: Even through the Internet. [Laughs]

JUSTIN: That's right. But I don't...I don't think it's fair to out people, so I don't think it's nice to speculate, but since no one knows this person, I have to say...

BRIAN: That's great. Well I know where I'll be going after I get done taping the show. Anywhoo...

JUSTIN: [Laughs] Any ways. So, we want to talk about the Day of Truth and the Day of Silence and all this "controversy" going on, on a lot of campuses including a lot of public school campuses.

BRIAN: And it's a difficult thing for people in high schools dealing with these issues, just as it is for people in churches. And people who listen to GCN Radio know that one of MY questions [Chuckles] that I tend to ask guests over and over again, I sometimes think and I'm a broken record, which is, "What needs to happen to start bringing some of these deeply divided groups together?" And lo and behold, we found one person out there, and probably there's more than one, but the one we found was the president of BridgeBuilders, on the web at www.bridge-builders.org and his name is Wayne Jacobson.

JUSTIN: Now, I should probably point out at this point that we've talked on the show before about an organization trying to build bridges on "gay" issues called "Bridges Across the Divide."

BRIAN: Right!

JUSTIN: And they're at bridges-across.org, this is not them, this is BridgeBuilders.

BRIAN: Right, a totally different organization.

JUSTIN: Totally!

BRIAN: Exactly. So Wayne Jacobsen is the president, and he's a nationally-know mediator and facilitator working to bring conflict resolution, and he joins us today on GCN Radio to talk a little bit about the kind of work he's doing in school districts. So Wayne, welcome to GCN Radio!

WAYNE: Thank you, it's good to be with you!

BRIAN: Now, it should be stated at the outset that BridgeBuilders is not out to change peoples' minds on their deeply held convictions. So what is the aim of BridgeBuilders?

WAYNE: No it's not, actually the aim of BridgeBuilders is to help school districts, mainly government kinds of agencies find common ground in these cultural--we call cultural war issues--where world views come into conflict and matters of sexuality and religious faith that's obviously at ground zero of the culture wars.

JUSTIN: Yeah.

WAYNE: So our hope is that school districts have the kind of dialogue that really makes room for those differences in our public schools. My point is this: if we're going to have public schools, then no one should be asked to participate in a public school that is biased against themselves. So we really have to work at ensuring that our school districts don't need to promote one kind of lifestyle or one theological conviction over another, it does need to be fair to them all, and that's what we help districts do.

JUSTIN: Certainly, in the school system right now, we've been talking about what's going on with this Day of Silence and the Day of Truth and all these competing ideas, clashing together in public schools where kids are there to learn. What do you find are the most difficult things that you have to deal with, what do you have to overcome in order for people to sit down and talk to each other?

WAYNE: I think that most people would agree with you. We would love it if public schools would just be about education and educating on academic kinds of things. Unfortunately, there are a lot of social issues that have a lot of play there, but because of the free speech rights a lot of students have, so if people want to speak out, for instance, even by not speaking out on the Day of Silence and others want to counteract that with the Day of Truth. Which is kind of tit-for-tat part of the culture war thing, one group does some thing to make a point, and another group has to respond in a different way. Students have free speech rights that allow that. I think the problem comes when the school district decides to climb on one side of that bandwagon or another, then it becomes complicated and parents or students who don't feel like they're part of the side the school district chose to identify with, and then they're marginalized and the public schools are no longer safe for them. So, what one of the big obstacles is to get people to think in terms of "not what just what I want from my public school, but what is fair for the public school in general; what is fair for all of us." When we switch the dialogue to that, then I think that people can think more rationally about what kinds of policies and solutions would be fair to our differences, rather than getting one side to win over the other.

JUSTIN: Hmm.

BRIAN: There's a different thread that I want to pull here in, too. I was on a panel, a speaker's panel, where one of the panelists--he's a college freshman, and just graduated from high school--and at his high school he was faced with lots of discrimination in gym class and bullied in locker rooms and so forth for being gay, and was involved in repeated lawsuits against the school system for the way he was treated. Does BridgeBuilders get into legal rights, or do you even get involved in legal issues at all?

WAYNE: Well, I'm not a lawyer, and we don't get involved with legal advice or legal issues. We talk a little bit about what First Amendment law does provide for school districts now. We do help people understand what harassment and discrimination looks like, so schools can address it. In California, sexual orientation/gender identity is a protected civil right, so that gives us a whole different way that we deal with it. That's not true in all states, obviously. But we do deal with the fact that, you know, how significant is this problem. The conflict, I think, for many, there's a group of people very concerned about folks with sexual orientation and gender-kinds of identity things that really recognize: that is a major way that people are harassed and bullied and not even necessarily those who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or trans-gendered. It also involves those who are HETEROSEXUAL but it's just the terminology that bullies use to diminish people often times, and we all know what that language is.

JUSTIN: Hmm.

WAYNE: So a lot of people are just like, "oh they're just kids, innocently teasing, it's no big deal and let's just blow it off." and that's kind of one and a significant portion of our population is really not FOR gay harassment or discrimination, but they're kind of on that "don't ask don't tell, we just prefer it not come up and our kids don't have to face it." They're willing to, kind of, diminish the incidences, it's just kind of, you know, "that's the way kids are, and there's not much we can do about it." I think that's pretty blind these days, to be honest. The kinds of...I went to one school district, for instance, it's very polarized on this issue, there had been a lawsuit by the ACLU, and the school district settled out of court over a gay-discrimination incident, and traded dollars for training. So they had the Gay-Straight alliance come in to do a significant amount of training in the district. The Christian parents, obviously, or many of the Christian parents or conservative parents didn't want that kind of training going on. And so, I was part of helping that district work out an anti-harassment/anti-discrimination package, that parents who even disagreed with the morality of homosexuality could still support. And we presented that to all the public high schools, and in the end, out of probably twelve- to fifteen-hundred freshmen that were going to be part of this class that was on anti-harassment/discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, FIVE students TOTAL opted out of the program. With faith enough that everybody felt like, "yeah, we can be here, and we can work with this." What's interesting to me is that, we had a break in the session, a lady had come up to me who I had known previously through some other contacts and said, "You know what really angers me about this?" She said, "Not just about gay kids; my son comes home every day from gym class in tears because he's called these names that people use for gender-identity issues and sexual orientation. He comes home in tears!" She looked up at me and said, "He's heterosexual!" I looked at her and said, "Don't you understand? These laws, this anti-discrimination/harassment is as much as FOR YOUR SON as it is for kids that are or might be gay or homosexual." And she never caught that this was for her kid, too! This was just to her, part of this "gay agenda" that was out to take over her school. And I think that, helping communities have this dialogue helps them understand that getting this right is in the best interest for ALL of us. It's not just one group winning over another, it's creating an environment in a public school where everyone can be there and feel safe and feel free to have expression.

JUSTIN: Hmm, wow. It does seem like on so many of these issues, whether it's issues dealing with harassment of gay students or issues relating to prayer in school things like "See You at the Pole" or other kinds of things, that so often you have folks seeing things from one particularly limited perspective and they're scared that the other side is going to "win" this culture war, and you talk about disarming controversy through "common ground thinking." What is--what do you mean by "common ground thinking"?

WAYNE: Okay, "common ground thinking" is just what we've called our way of helping create a "First Amendment-reflective school district." So, it's really taking the First Amendment and applying its principles--and really the current consensus under law--of how this is a form we need to share together. This is not--yes, we do have this culture war, and the fundraising language of both, the groups on the left and the groups on the right, is all the same. The language is always: "there's this group out there--and fill-in-the-blank, it can be the 'gay agenda' it can be religious zealots--are out to destroy the America we hold dear, and we need your money to keep up this fight." It's created this incredible "angst" and anger and animosity in our culture. And "common ground thinking" is to bring those people together and say, "How do we rethink this cultural debate?" And I think the First Amendment gives us an excellent platform to do it. Because what the First Amendment is saying, that Government can't take sides in that. So, government's responsibility, and I would argue the responsibility of the school board members and school administrators, yes they may have personal preferences on these issues, but their ROLE as a government leader, teacher, whatever, has the role of being a custodian for a "higher common good." And that is, "how does government provide a society that is free and safe for everyone?" That's the goal of the "common ground thinking." It more focuses on an environment that is FAIR, rather than resolving the morality of homosexuality or any of those other kinds of issues. And I think the First Amendment and current case law, whether it's about school prayer, Bible reading, those kinds of things, has really when you actually break it down for people, what that looks like and why it's in ALL OF OUR BEST INTEREST to embrace that, very quickly wins the room. I show up in rooms that are divided 15-to-15, polarized, sexual orientation policy, we're arguing, there's gay rights advocates on one side, there's conservative Christians on the other. My opening line is usually, "We're done tonight when 90 per cent of us agree on a policy." They all laugh, thinking it's my opening joke. The fact is, by the end of the evening, we will vote out a policy 27-to-2, 29-to-1. I've never not walked away from a district that has not been able to find that common ground. If you're going to treat me fairly, then I think that's where every side says, "Okay, I'm okay with it. Public schools are going to treat us all fairly; I'm okay with that."

BRIAN: Wow.

JUSTIN: That's amazing to me. It's taking a step further than just saying, "Let's all agree to disagree" or just this sort of intellectual philosophizing about trying to find some kind of common ground. You're actually talking about tangible results, of people agreeing on a policy that's fair to everyone.

WAYNE: Yeah, and we're not arguing--we're not asking people to AGREE, you know, whether this is a right thing or a wrong thing, but, "how does school treat us all fairly?" When we get it to that point, people very quickly just say, "Hey, this is what I want to be a part of." We think "common ground" is really "common sense," it's just that "common sense" is amazingly uncommon in our culture.

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

WAYNE: Most people are set to think about this is, "I've got a SIDE in this, and I've got to fight for MY side to win." And the school district that chooses either to have a gay pride parade or have school prayer in the morning, we think that both of those push something that schools shouldn't be about. Individual groups, advocacy groups, various kinds of groups can do that in the culture, it's not the role of the public school to do those things.

BRIAN: On your website which is www.bridge-builders.org one of the areas that you talk about are the "Rules of Engagement." I found that those seven rules very interesting, and people can take a look at those. "You can't force people to change their worldview." That's rule number one. "You best protect your civil freedoms by protecting those who disagree with you" rule number four, and there are several others. How have they been received?

WAYNE: As I've said to you, most of the rooms I walk out of were in agreement upwards of ninety per cent to one hundred per cent of the room. The common ground agreements we've helped schools negotiate, fifteen, ten, twelve years later are still the policies of that school district. And the reports we have coming back from various groups is just saying, "This is the most incredible policy." We've got people talking to each other in KIND ways that have not talked to each other in decades. So yeah, when I go to a school district, often my fee is guaranteed, if I don't help that school find a resolution, I don't get paid. And I have never not been paid, so, I think that says how effective this works. Yes, it does work.

JUSTIN and BRIAN: [Astonished buzz]

WAYNE: I realize those are schools that are inviting me to come, so already there's a bent in that district to do something that's fair for everyone, but there's an awful lot of school districts that are on one side or another, have this "agenda," that they're trying to fit just under the shadow of the law; do as much as they can in hopes that somebody won't sue them, and I think it's a discredit to us all. I think that school districts should get this right. They will tell us years later, it's just--it's created such a better environment for our whole community. Because it's rebuilt some of this mutual respect that I think the cultural wars destroys. Because, one of those rules is, we vilify people we disagree with; part of the whole fighting these days is you vilify people who don't see the world the same way you do. I think that's harming our culture. So, yeah, getting people on line with that, there's a whole First Amendment construct we do, and by the time we get to the end of that, people, uh, I can say it's common sense. People just say, "Yeah, this makes sense. I don't want government to intrude on my liberty of conscience." The things we're talking about here are matters of conscience and government DOESN'T have a role in telling us what we should believe. But, it does have a role in ensuring that we don't use our disagreements as a cause for war between us.

JUSTIN: Hmm. Do you ever find that people want to try to "pigeon-hole" you, and figure out exactly where you, uh, what your opinions are on a particular issue when you are talking about some of these?

WAYNE: People often ask, and I'm very honest about them. I don't feel like it's anything I have to hide for people. I've got other web sites and other books I've written. I got a call from a school district the other day asking me to come in, it was one of the school board members that is supporting a sexual orientation anti-harassment policy, and she sat me down in the corner and said to me, "I discovered you graduated from Oral Roberts University," which she found on a different web site, and that made her concerned, like, "You're going to come in here and..." I said, "Listen, I'll tell you what my personal beliefs are in this. But, I'm also going to tell you I DON'T think it's not the SCHOOL'S job to enforce those or denigrate those, either way."

JUSTIN: So it's possible even then, while taking a personal stand on an issue, to still continue to be, sort of, neutral in the public sphere.

WAYNE: My whole role as mediator--I'm not an arbitrator, so I think there would be issues if I were an arbitrator; about conflict of interest, what is affecting me.

JUSTIN: Sure.

WAYNE: When I'm a mediator, when I walk out of a room and ninety per cent agree on a policy, then that isn't about what Wayne thinks or believes. That's about this community finding a way to work together. So, in that role, my personal preferences are not part of the discussion. My discussion is to help their preferences, their concerns, find a policy that they can all sign on together.

BRIAN: Let's take the example of the Day of Silence and in those school districts where BridgeBuilders has come in to help establish some policies, how are things "safer," if you will, for both Christian groups and GLBT groups?

WAYNE: What we try to encourage school districts to do is: Don't endorse either the Day of Silence or the Day of Truth. If you endorse it, now you're saying to the community, "We've taken sides on this thing." So, what the school district has to decide, first of all, is "students being silent" as a form of protest going to violate their curricular day. That's an issue the school district has to deal with. Some say, if they allow students to be silent, they're tacitly endorsing it. We're helping districts understand and people understand, that's not necessarily true. Students have free speech rights, and if the school wants to give way to those on a certain day, it's doesn't mean necessarily they're supporting the agenda. Same thing with the kids on the Day of Truth, they've got some pamphlets to pass out, things they want to say, there's places in the school day where they can do that; recess, personal time. There's ways they can make their case with other students that is part of their free speech rights. No school policy can take that away or abrogate it. By the same token, they need to understand that there's a way to communicate those things that crosses a line of harassment or discrimination, and their free speech rights are not going to protect them there. So, these are the things we haven't negotiated, but we do help districts understand about what the law says and what they can do to be a "bridge builder" in these kinds of things rather than a "side taker."

JUSTIN: Well, a lot of the stuff that you're talking about is, of course, specifically related to the public sphere, and that's what you're doing, is talking about these issues in public school settings and the First Amendment and how this relates to public schools being essentially NEUTRAL on some of these issues. Do you think that some of these principles are relevant, as well, in private settings, for instance, families, individuals in the private sector?

WAYNE: I do think the principles would probably change the way we treat people in a variety of ways. I think that would become true in families, as we would recognize and give weight and freedom to each other's liberty of conscience. That's kind of the language that the First Amendment uses. I think that becomes problematic, though, when you talk about private institutions, who do not, I mean, the same First Amendment strictures are not on churches and on private businesses and those kinds of things. So, it's not the same at all. You can't compel people to provide a fair environment to theological differences in a theological environment, that's not where they have to do it. Those groups are allowed points of view and to exclude people who don't share that point of view, and that goes on in terms of institutions. But I do think within families, I do hope some of these things would give us a better way to treating each other, not seeing each other as the enemy, seeing each other as fellow citizens with disagreements about moral issues or sexual issues and find better ways to express that. I think the church tries to express the view of "love the sinner, and hate the sin" and I think it's always clear that they hate them BOTH!

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

WAYNE: That seems to be more than that's conveyed from that. And I do hope that institutions and groups, even if we disagree with people we still extend to each other a love and respect that is part of my faith, and, I think, part of the way we want to live together as a nation of people.

JUSTIN: Wow! Great stuff! And people who are interested in learning more about BridgeBuilders and what you are doing can visit your website there at www.bridge-builders.org.

WAYNE: Yeah, they can. We'll be happy to talk to them.

JUSTIN: Great! Thanks so much, it's been a pleasure. [Sighs with relief] Ahh! I love hearing this kind of stuff! It warms my heart, because it's really, really important work to be doing right now in the cultural wars! So thank you so much!

WAYNE: You're welcome. I hope it's helpful.

BRIAN: What an interesting discussion with Wayne Jacobsen at BridgeBuilders. He's got some interesting thoughts, and, it's neat to talk with someone who's got some tangible ideas about how to really start to get at some of these issues and help bringing some of these deeply divided people to at least some kind of common ground.

JUSTIN: Yeah, and I really think that's something that all of us really need to be focused on. Obviously for those of us who are GLBT and Christian, we have an obvious motivation for wanting to build those bridges. But, I really think that Christians, in general, especially need to be really focused on how to build bridges to non-Christians and to Christians with different beliefs, because that's how you make a difference in the world. You're not going to make it by fighting and arguing and all of that.

BRIAN: Exactly.

JUSTIN: And, you know, you were saying earlier, public schools especially, kids need to be able to learn in school.

BRIAN: Right, in a way, in a place they feel safe and they're not feeling threatened.

JUSTIN: That's right, that's right and the threat goes both ways. They need to not be worried about their values being threatened. They need to not worry about their person being threatened.

BRIAN: We all come from different backgrounds and beliefs, and in the public school, we all need to be able to LEARN safely together.

JUSTIN: Umm-hmm.

BRIAN: So that kind of leads us to the "Question of the Week" that we want to pose to our audience.

JUSTIN: [In strange voice] QUESTION OF THE WEEK, Oh yeah!

BRIAN: Uh-oh! You're starting that again! [Laughs] The character voices of Justin, again, are coming out. Oh, my goodness.

JUSTIN: [In gruff voice] DOCTOR PHIL!

BRIAN: [Howls with laughter] Oh, that's right that was from the Dr. Phil show!

JUSTIN: The Dr. Phil show, [In voice] DOCTOR PHIL!

BRIAN: Oh my goodness.

JUSTIN: Actually, I think the original Dr. Phil joke that I made got edited out of that show, so our listeners probably have no idea.

BRIAN: Oh!

JUSTIN: But I did the voice later on, so people--I associate it with Dr. Phil because that's where it started.

BRIAN: [Laughing]

JUSTIN: I'm like [in weird voice] DR. PHIL!

BRIAN: Okay. [Laughing] So back to the Question of the Week! [Laughs]

JUSTIN: [In gruff voice] QUESTION OF THE WEEK...

BRIAN: Okay, [Laughs] now I see I'm going to be laughing the rest of the way through the show.

JUSTIN: High School.

BRIAN: Talking about high school, and I know we have people of all different ages. And High School was a long time ago for me, but not so long ago for some other people, but what was your experience, being gay, in high school?

JUSTIN: Or "trans" or "bi" or...

BRIAN: Exactly. Your being non-heterosexual...

JUSTIN: Well, "trans" people can be heterosexual.

BRIAN: That's true, my bad.

JUSTIN: People who--uh, being different! [Laughs] Being GLBT in high school. If you're straight then you can't answer this question.

BRIAN: And you may have not been "out."

JUSTIN: If you're straight and you went to a gay high school then you can answer the question. You can talk about how weird it was to be straight.

BRIAN: Or, hey, if a gay person came out to you in high school and you're straight.

JUSTIN: Well, that's true.

BRIAN: That would be really interesting: If you're straight and suddenly one of your best friends says, "Hey, I'm gay!" or, "I'm bi-" or et cetera. This works for all people this question does.

JUSTIN: Yeah, dealing with GLBT issues in high school, what was that like?

BRIAN: This is a fairly open-ended, maybe there's a story you can share or talk about, [In sympathetic psychiatrist voice] "Talk about your FEELINGS!" [Laughs]

JUSTIN: Were you out? Were you in the closet? Were you scared? If you're like me you might have been gay but not out to yourself and really homophobic.

BRIAN: Or maybe you were waving flags everywhere?

JUSTIN: Maybe! And if you're still in high school, then we want to hear from you, too.
BRIAN: If you're in high school or in a GLBT group that meets at your high school, and how has that been? Anyway, whatever your answer is, go ahead and call us, that is what we LOVE when you call us put your lovely voice on our answering machine.

JUSTIN: We had lots of great calls last week.

BRIAN: I know. I was so excited!

JUSTIN: Yes!

BRIAN: 1-888-GAY-4GOD, 1-888-G-A-Y-4-G-O-D [1-888-429-4463] here in the U.S. or Canada, you can call that line, and share with us your experience about GLBT issues in high school.

JUSTIN: That's right, and if you're outside of the U.S. and Canada and you're unable to call the hotline, or you just don't want to hear your voice you can write in as well. And you can do that by heading over to our web site at www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio and there's a little box there where you can type in your response to the question of the week.

BRIAN: Excellent! And we'll look forward to reviewing those responses on a future show!

JUSTIN: Yay!

BRIAN: All right! So I think that...

JUSTIN: [In character voice] IN HIGH SCHOOL!

BRIAN: [Laughing] What is that? What is the name of that character? Do we have a name for it? And should we have a regular segment for it?

JUSTIN: It's Doctor Phil. It's not really Dr. Phil.

BRIAN: That is Dr. Phil? Oh, so you were really imitating Dr. Phil?

JUSTIN: No I wasn't imitating Dr. Phil, I just call him Dr. Phil now was because the first time I ever did it I was making fun of being on the Dr. Phil Show.

BRIAN: [Chuckles] Wow.

JUSTIN: Oh my goodness.

BRIAN: I think we better ought to...

JUSTIN: OH! OH! I have to say something, because I was going to say something at the beginning of the show and I forgot!

BRIAN: Okay.

JUSTIN: Do you know, that when the show was late last week--we were a few days late, okay--and all day Friday had gone by and the show wasn't up? Do you know MY PHONE started ringing?

BRIAN: I know.

JUSTIN: And people were wanting to know where the show was.

BRIAN: [Laughs heartily] Oh!

JUSTIN: It's like, some of the people I talked to remind me of, um, someone who needs to go on a cigarette break.

BRIAN: [Laughs]

JUSTIN: And they're like, [in frantic voice] "WHERE, when, where's the show? WHERE'S THE SHOW? I need it! I NEED it! NOW!

BRIAN: [Laughs] I'm happy that we can, you know, we're like a drug to some people. I mean, they need to get their FIX of GCN Radio each Friday.

JUSTIN: Mmmm!

BRIAN: So that's a happy thing. That's a safe thing for you, and we appreciate being in your life in that way.

JUSTIN: Aww.

BRIAN: We try as hard as we can to get online, on Fridays. There are some times when, for whatever reason, it just doesn't happen. Both Justin and I have full time jobs outside of producing this show. And we make it a priority to be up on Fridays, but we...but sometimes we can't. And believe me, I feel a great pain when there is not a show on Friday, too. Because it usually means that I've dropped the ball somewhere. [Chuckles]

JUSTIN: No, no, no, no. In this case, it was just lots of technical "bleah."

BRIAN: There's always those technical--

JUSTIN: But the show still made it.

BRIAN: It did.

JUSTIN: I would like to point out that the show still made it on line; it was just a few days late.

BRIAN: And it was fabulous! It was just fabulous!

JUSTIN: Well, thank you! So they have TWO shows this week.

BRIAN: That's terrific. So we've made up for it.

JUSTIN: We have! I think so!

BRIAN: I do. Well, um, send us your comments on the show that Justin and Kennan did last week, or this week. Just send them on over and thank you for the e-mail that you have sent to gcnradio@gaychristian.net, and we do read everything we get. So, thank you very much for that. And, of course, you can call us anytime, 1-888-GAY-4GOD. So, YAY!

JUSTIN: All right! Well, thanks for listening everyone! And we will be back next Friday.

BRIAN: Absolutely. So for this week, I'm Brian.

JUSTIN: And I'm DOCTOR PHIL! No, wait, I'm Justin!

BRIAN: [Laughs] We'll see you next week, partner!

JUSTIN: YEE-HAW!

BRIAN: Oh, my!

[Music fades out]