GCN Radio - July 27, 2007
Transcribed by MyckeyD

To listen to this episode, visit http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio

[GCN Intro plays]

SUPERIMPOSING VOICE: Welcome, to GCN Radio!

JUSTIN: Well, hello everyone, and welcome back! This is our fourth season, it's the first season that we've had without Brian. I'll just put it right out there; I know everyone's thinking it right now. You know, oh we miss Brian! For those of you who hadn't been listening to GCN Radio in the past, GCN Radio is a show produced by the Gay Christian Network over at www.gaychristian.net and for the last three seasons, Brian has been producing this show and he's been my co-host, and every episode we talk about issues of relevance to the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Christian community in the world today. And so that is what we do, and we're excited to do it, we love doing it, but unfortunately, at the end of the last season, Brian told us all that his job has given him increased responsibilities. Which is good for him, he's getting to do more stuff, but it's bad for us because it means he doesn't have time to do the show anymore. But he promised me he'd still listen to the show. So, we'll have to talk about him everyday, and then maybe he'll listen. But we do air on Fridays, you can always catch us in iTunes, or your other pod cast listening software-goodness stuff, and of course, you can always listen to us right on the website, head over to www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio, and you can hear an archive--you don't hear the archive--there is an archive and you can listen to it, of all the past shows. Any ways.

Welcome back! And of course, a lot of people have been asking, "So who's going to replace Brian? Are you going to bring in a new co-host, and who is it going to be?" Well, the quick answer to that is, "Yes, we're going to bring in a new co-host. No, no one can replace Brian. No, the new co-host is not here today." Sorry. So it's just me today, so you'll just have to listen to me, and I apologize for that. But we have an awesome guest on the show today! I'm really excited! We're going to talk a documentary called "Camp Out" and I just found out about this. Well, I'd heard about it, actually, a few months ago, but I just had a chance to finally see it, and it's going to be airing on the Logo network this weekend, so, we're going to talk to one of the directors of the documentary. It is about a Gay Christian summer camp. So, we'll talk about that in just a minute.

RIGHT NOW, as you're listening to this, there's a good chance that I'm in California! YES! Shockingly, it's not live if you're listening to it on your iPod. I'm in California right now for the Western Conference of Evangelicals Concerned. You can go to their website over at ecwr.org, that's Evangelicals Concerned Western Region, ah ECWR, there you go. They've got a conference there in California, the annual connection conference, of course there's one in the east that happened last month. So I'm out there, I'm giving a workshop, which is really interesting. You can ask other people when they get back, how I did, hopefully nothing goes wrong, but that's what I'm doing right now, so keep me in your thoughts and prayers please. Hopefully everything goes well. I do think it's probably too late for you to register if you're listening to this now, but hey, you know if you want to fly out to California, we're in Orange County, so come out and see us. Then I'll be back here to the GCN office in Raleigh, North Carolina next week on Wednesday.

So I'm thinking, "You know, I'm missing Brian right now." Because, normally, Brian and I get to banter, we get to talk about stuff, so, um, I'm thinking, let's give him a call. What do you think? Because it's lonely here in the studio with no co-host and no Brian, so I'm going to give Brian a call.

[Telephone ring tone in background noise]

Hopefully, Brian will answer the phone, we'll see. It's ringing . . .

[Telephone rings]

BRIAN: Hello?

JUSTIN: Hi, Brian!

BRIAN: Justin!

JUSTIN: How are you?

BRIAN: Hey!

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

BRIAN: Hey! How's it going?

JUSTIN: I'm doing well. Can you hear me okay?

BRIAN: Yes.

JUSTIN: Excellent.

BRIAN: Yeah. Yes, so what's happening? What's going on?

JUSTIN: Um, I'm--well, I'm in my office.

BRIAN: Oh, well, I can't say that I'm surprised.

JUSTIN: Yeah, yeah, I know. That's pretty much where I live. I've got a little cot over there with a pillow and the blanket and everything.

BRIAN: Oh, man! Well, that's kind of how I've been. I've been in my office working, many, many, [sighs] many, MANY, many, many long hours this summer trying to be part of a team that's building a radio station, and we've um, we've gotten the hard part done. We're out of our old place and into the new place, completely now. We're just sort of trying to build up and keep putting new equipment in and trying to learn it, and trying to not go off the air, and all that fun stuff. So it's probably the biggest challenge I've been through since college.

JUSTIN: Building a radio station sounds to me like you're like putting bricks on top of each other.

BRIAN: Sometimes it feels that way. The bricks and the mortar are there, it's mostly just technical wiring and building, you know, setting up computer networks and making audio "make sound" and all that kind of stuff.

JUSTIN: That sounds really exciting.

BRIAN: It is RIVITING! [Laughs]

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

BRIAN: As in, I wish, that vacation, and that rest and relaxation is yet to happen for me.

JUSTIN: Oh!

BRIAN: But it's been a very productive summer. I feel very, very PROUD of where we've been so far and where we're going. And there's a light at the end of the tunnel now.

JUSTIN: Well that's good. That's very good.

BRIAN: So how's the show? How's GCN Radio going, because, I haven't really heard much up to this point?

JUSTIN: [Laughs] It's, well, so far nothing has exploded.

BRIAN: [Laughs] Okay! Well, that's good. What I'm doing now, any "non-explosions" are good things.

JUSTIN: I've got a board here, like, you know, because the last three years you've been doing this show and you've had the board, and when I came out and was in the studio with you I saw all the knobs and stuff.

BRIAN: Right, Yes.

JUSTIN: And I was like, "How can anybody do that?" Now I've got the knobs here.

BRIAN: Yea! I'm proud! Congratulations!

JUSTIN: Well, I guess, I'm not really sure what they all do. I keep turning them and then things get louder and quieter and then--you know?

BRIAN: There you go! That's all you need to know.

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

BRIAN: It's trial and error, an it's mostly error. And eventually you get, if it makes sound, then that's good. That's kind of my world right now.

JUSTIN: With me it's definitely error; it's lots of error.

BRIAN: [Laughs] I doubt that.

JUSTIN: So, well, I wanted to touch base and see how you are and because it's lonely here trying to do the show without you.

BRIAN: Well, I should say first of all, I miss the show. I still get email from people and that they say how much they've enjoyed listening to the archives of the shows that we've done. I mean we did a whole bunch of shows. It was a huge part of my life for three years and I miss it. In the position that I'm in now, I'm kind of a technical geek, you know? Plugging wires in and trying to do computer configuration and it's not as rewarding as working being creative and working with content. So I mean, I really, really miss that, especially the ministry part I really miss. But I still get emails from people, so I'm very thankful for everyone that you guys haven't forgotten about me.

JUSTIN: Oh, no one can forget about you!

BRIAN: But I guess I would say, first of all, remember that this isn't TV. So, you don't even have to bother to comb your hair.

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

BRIAN: Oh, wait. That's not a problem for you.

JUSTIN: Thanks, Brian.

BRIAN: [Laughs] You can wear whatever clothing you want.

JUSTIN: True.

BRIAN: You can have a great big cup of hot chocolate or whatever. You know? But seriously, the advice I would have to you or to anybody doing any kind of ministry or whatever is first and foremost: "have fun"! My goodness, we did so many shows together and I think the thing I remember the most is just the fun we had and how much fun it was to meet different people and to hear their stories, and to get a sense of satisfaction of knowing that we did something really good. So have fun and serve God, and wear whatever you want.

JUSTIN: Well, thanks!

BRIAN: [Laughs]

JUSTIN: I'll remember that not to worry about my hair, and clothing optional.

BRIAN: Exactly!

JUSTIN: And, something else, but I don't remember what it was. But anyways--

BRIAN: Serve God!

JUSTIN: [Laughs] Something about that, yeah, yeah.

BRIAN: Yeah! [Laughs]

JUSTIN: Well, thanks, I appreciate the advice. Hopefully, you know, if I can keep things from exploding and if I can--

BRIAN: If you smell smoke, call 911.

JUSTIN: Okay. Thank you.

BRIAN: You're welcome.

JUSTIN: I'll do that. Thanks for talking to me Brian. I really appreciate it.

BRIAN: I miss you. I miss everybody and thanks for remembering me, and please be assured that I remember all of you everyday. So we will be in touch.

JUSTIN: Okay, well thanks. I'll talk to you later.

BRIAN: All right, take care, have a good show!

JUSTIN: Thanks! So, well, this is about the time in the show when we do the "Question of the Week". As you know, this is where we play our listener responses, and you get to hear what everyone had to say. But it's the first show of the season, so I don't have any listener responses. So please give me some listener responses. So here's what you do: you're going to call 1-888--you just keep hitting that eight key until you feel like it's done. Okay? 1-888-GAY-4GOD, that's 1-888-GAY-4GOD. For those of you who can't spell, that's 1-888-429-4463. Give us a call, hit the number for GCN Radio and the prompt comes up and that will transport you magically to our GCN Radio listener comment feedback voice mailbox. Leave us a message in that voice mailbox, and we will play some of the messages we receive on a future edition of GCN Radio. So might be asking, what is the question? Well here is a question for this week, it's very simple, so you have no excuse for not answering it; the question is, "Are you glad GCN Radio is back?" No, wait. Wait! "WHY are you glad GCN Radio is back?" I've been hearing from some of you wanting to know when the show is going to return. We've returned. We're back. Now tell us why you're glad we're back. We'll choose our favorite responses; we'll play them on the show. Next week, if we have a show next week, which we might not because I'm going to be out of town for part of the week, so maybe the week after that. But the next show that we have, we'll be playing some of these responses. So get them in as fast as you can. 1-888-GAY-4GOD. "Why are you glad GCN Radio is back?" And if you're just too wimpy, you can't handle the telephone, or you have a good reason, like if you're outside the USA or Canada, that's okay, send us your text response by logging on to www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio. There's a box there where you can put in your text response, go ahead and do that and let us know "why you are glad GCN Radio is Back?"

JUSTIN: Well I've had enough of just hearing me talk, so let's go ahead and bring on our guest for this week. So today, we've got Larry Grimaldi on the show with us. He is one of the producers and directors of "Camp Out" a documentary that is going to be airing this weekend on Logo. Larry thanks for joining us on the show today!

LARRY GRIMALDI: Thanks for having me.

JUSTIN: So, well, for starters, can you tell us a little bit about what is "Camp Out?" What is this film about?

LARRY: "Camp Out" is simply an observational documentary that follows ten kids who are going on a journey. And for these ten kids, it's a journey to find a way to bridge the gap between their sexual identity and their spirituality. All of the kids identify as Christian, although they have different levels of acceptance and they're not always sure where they stand with their religious beliefs, or how much they want to participate, but they're trying to find a place, a safe place, where they can be themselves and to meet teenagers who have the same interests and commonality that they have and in order to kind of figure themselves out, and figure out whom they want to be in the world, and what kind of people they want to be.

JUSTIN: Okay. So they're at this camp, and this is, was it the first gay Christian camp? I saw that, I didn't even know there was such a thing as a gay Christian camp, and I run the Gay Christian Network, and I didn't know there is a gay Christian camp.

LARRY: There is. There is! It's the only one in existence as far as I know. But when we shot the documentary it was most certainly documented the only overnight Bible camp for gay Christian teenagers in existence. And it's run by an organization out of Minneapolis called The Naming Project. And The Naming Project, I believe, started as a drop-in center for teenagers to talk about issues of spirituality and sexual identity in a safe place with other teenagers. And the folks who started the Naming project always wanted to have this camp and they just made it happen one day. That is what you're seeing when you watch "Camp Out" is the actual first time the camp ever took place.

JUSTIN: So now, where did you come in? How did you find out about all of this? How did you get involved in wanting to film this?

LARRY: Well there were three gentlemen who started the camp: Jay Wiesner, Brad Froslee, and Ross Murray. And Brad knew Kirk Marcolina, who I produced and directed the movie with. They had met on vacation and had kept in touch. Brad had called Kirk and said, "Hey, do you know any kids who want to go to this camp? I've finally got this off the ground and we're very excited!" Kirk and I have worked together for a very long time, and I'm very lucky, because not only do we work together very well, but he's one of my best friends. Kirk was like, "I don't know anyone off hand, but I would love to film this." And we started talking how we could possibly film this and knew that we didn't have enough lead-time and actually to pitch it as a documentary series. Truth be told, it seemed kind of controversial at the time. And who would really pony up all that money to make a film about a bunch of gay Christian teenagers who were off to camp? So we decided that it would be best for the project to shoot it as an independent documentary. And six weeks later, we were on the road and shooting with the help of Evolution Film & Tape whose Burbank production company, not only funded the film, but were our executive producers.

JUSTIN: I have to admit something to you. So I had heard about this documentary, someone had mentioned it to me. And I had two reactions. My first reaction was, a gay Christian camp? How does this exist and I hadn't heard about this? [Because, it's my business to know about these things.] The second thing I thought was, as excited as I was about a gay Christian camp I can't imagine being interested in watching a documentary. You know, I'm not much of a documentary person in general. I can't imagine watching a documentary, especially one that's over an hour-long, about kids in summer camp. It just didn't interest me. And I just saw the film and it is absolutely riveting! It's SO interesting! And you do such a wonderful job of bringing out the personalities of these kids. I mean, it's like, at times it is heart breaking and at other times, I was like jumping up and down. I was just so excited about was happening! So you have all these different kids, were there any that particularly stood out to you or that you've just found interesting yourself?

LARRY: Well I think that's like asking a mother or a father who their favorite kid is.

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

LARRY: I mean, you know, I think all the kids are just so great and they all brought out such interesting stories and traits that really bounced-off and encouraged and complemented everybody else. So I think if you took one of them out, even the quietest kid, you would change the whole dynamic. What's truly interesting about "Camp Out" is that it really wasn't cherry-picking casting, these were the kids who were going to camp and we were to follow them and it was their story and not only the story of them individually but the story of them collectively. And I think they ALL have really interesting stories to tell. But if you wanted to pick one of them out I would say it was Thomas in trying to get over the 'truth-or-dare' moment.

JUSTIN: Hmm.

LARRY: He was definitely divided about how he should feel, you know? As somebody who's Christian, he felt maybe that wasn't appropriate to do at camp, but yet he was also a teenager, and sometimes teenagers don't have that many outlets to explore. I think that Brad really says it best, I think WHAT he says in the film defines what "Camp Out" is about, you can hide behind your religion or hide behind your sexuality, at this camp it was about bridging the two. He was like, "You don't want to ...your religion, but you don't want to hide your sexual identity either, so how do we bridge that gap and be the full people God wants us to be?"

JUSTIN: Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned Thomas. I have to say, I was so cheering for Thomas through the whole film because, he, for one thing, he would fit in so well with our community at GCN. But personally I just--I really connect with him. He reminds me so much of me when I was a kid, because, I think he says it himself, he's really serious about his faith to the point that some of the other kids seem really not to know what to make of that sometimes, but he does undergo a journey through the film and as well as the rest of the campers. I love that there's some really funny moments in the film, too. One of my favorite bits is near the very beginning when Jesse's family is talking about when you discover that you're gay, and his dad makes the comment about the Sears Roebuck catalog.

LARRY: Right. It always gets a really big laugh!

JUSTIN: And he's like, "DA-A-AD!" It's hilarious! And then, Christine's mom makes a comment about, in a straight camp you don't let the guys cabin and the girls cabin interact, because of teenagers being what they are and you know sexual tensions running wild and everything, "What are they going to do at a gay camp?" And I hadn't thought about it until that moment and it was really interesting for me to see how they were going to actually resolve that problem, and they do and it seems to work out fairly well.

LARRY: I know! It's truly funny because for the adults it just shows that they don't really have all the answers either. So when you now think about, "Well, what about a thirteen year-old or a fourteen year-old or a fifteen year-old?" It's like people are always learning and trying to figure it out, "But do we have, does society allow us to, and give us the contextual clues to figure these things out? Do they give us physical ways to figure these things out?" Well, hardly ever, because we live in a society where people still need to be in the closet at a very young age often times. And so for Jesse's Dad he was able to probably look at a Sears Roebuck catalog and know that he was straight and probably could talk to other boys like himself who were doing the same things and be validated. But for a gay or lesbian teenager, they don't have that way of validation because they have no one to talk to really and they can't, they don't feel safe about it. And so instead, they feel dirty about it, or they feel confused by it and they go to bed at night afraid and they wake up going to school afraid. I think a lot of times they don't reach their true potential because they're not really able to be their true self. So what this camp does is allows them to say, "Hey, there are people like me out there." Although they're kids they're talking about issues that adults have a hard time talking about. And yet, they're just, you know, age thirteen to eighteen.

JUSTIN: Um-hmm. I thought that it was really interesting too, that the kids at this particular camp didn't seem to be struggling so much with their own sexual identity. They seemed to be dealing with being gay and Christian, to a large extent the way that a lot of any straight kid would deal with being Christian and any other way that they were different from their peers. But I think they all seem to be fairly secured in their own sexuality compared to say where I was [chuckles] at that point in high school.

LARRY: I think that's 100% true and I think in that way where they're really good role models for other kids and for other adults, because I think the struggle continues. And what we have to remember when you watch this is that these guys are just teenagers. They're teenage boys and they're teenage girls. And they're still kids and they're trying to find themselves. And luckily they know that they're gay and they're not struggling with that issue, but they are struggling with, "How do I now go out into the real world and exist and be everything I want to be and be accepted, and where's my support system for that?" And for all of these ten kids, they found it in each other.

JUSTIN: Hmm.

LARRY: And what that does, is that it allows them now to make decisions or have a support group or people to bounce things off of, or just simply friends, you know, that they can talk to and talk about their experiences and relate to. That when they become adults, they'll be so much more grounded than, I think, the generations before.

JUSTIN: Okay, so here's a question that I had to ask you. You've got these kids at this summer camp and you're there to make this documentary, did you ever have problems with like the cameras getting in the way or feeling like maybe the kids wouldn't be fully themselves because they had these cameras around all the time?

LARRY: No. Not really. You always run into that problem in the beginning, because the cameras are there, they're obvious. But you keep back at an observational level and you kind of instruct them and tell them about the process and what's going to happen and that you're not there to interfere with their process. And as time goes by, and very quickly I might add--maybe it's because people are so media savvy these days--but people actually forget the cameras are there. And you really do become a fly on the wall. And it's amazing what cameras will pick up, if you're sensitive and if you're just watching and listening. I think the key is, is to watch and listen. You try not to interfere with anything, but just to be there and capture the moment, and if you treat people with respect and you talk to them about the process and they know what your common goal is, I think you get it in return. I think what I got out of this, and I think I'm talking for Kirk, I think I can talk for Kirk, and say not only we got friendship with these kids and counselors, but we're completely moved, and I think it really reinstated our own faith and the ideology that we could be both Christian and gay ourselves.

JUSTIN: Hmm.

LARRY: But if you do it right, I don't think the camera gets in the way. I think the camera picks up honestly what's around them.

JUSTIN: Well, it certainly came across that way, and I was amazed, because I kept thinking, "I don't know how they do this, but everyone does seem to be very much at ease and just being themselves." Whatever you did, it seems to have worked for a little while.

LARRY: Well there's also a truth that comes out of a younger people often times, because they're not as jaded, and they trust a little bit more. And frankly, they're also a lot more honest because they don't have as much baggage to bring to the table, and hate. They're just, they're willing to share, and I think most people long to share, but as we get older we become fearful of that. And you're hearing a lot of rhetoric directly from youths that you've never heard before, and maybe it's not because it's never been done before, maybe it's because we don't listen.

JUSTIN: Well I think one of the things, to me, that is so important about this film is you see these kids, just being kids. Being kids at summer camp who happen to be gay Christian kids but they seem like, I mean it reminds me SO much of my summer camp experiences at a Christian summer camp where, at least as far as I knew, I was the only gay one there, and I wasn't even out to myself at the time. I was thinking, "Yeah, I knew that kid, and that kid, and that kid." I mean they had different names and they look different. But very similar kinds of personalities and for me it almost becomes a NON-issue, you know? It's amazing how it's just like these are just kids, they're just people and I wish that everyone could see this film and get THAT sense because it's amazing how that comes across. So we're starting to run out of time here but I did want to ask you this, at the end of the film--and I don't want to spoil anything because I really want to encourage our listeners to watch the film when it airs on Logo this weekend--at the end of the film, the kids come out in some very different places, it's not "cookie cutter" it's very real, and then during the credits, you give a little more information about sort of what's happened since the film, or since the camp, have you followed up with the kids at all since the film was completed?

LARRY: Sure, absolutely! Well, when you watch the film, you will see what they are up to now in the closing credits, and I keep in touch with them. You know, some more than others, because they're growing up and you know, who's taking a semester in Europe and who's in college and, you know, they're really cracking down on the books and they have no time for anything but, some or a lot of them are on my buddy list, and I talk to them where I am every day, you reach others through MySpace and others call in. We've gotten to travel a little bit with the film, some of the kids and I. I see them all as friends and I'm very happy that we're continuing the relationship and I am watching them grow up. In terms of what they're doing now, I think most of them are starting their college careers. Some of them, the older kids, are even getting ready to graduate and they're figuring out what they're doing next. But they're all really doing very well.

JUSTIN: That's really awesome. That's really awesome. Um, well is there anything else you wanted to share?

LARRY: Well, one thing is that, just because I wanted to kind of make fun of you before and say, "You need to watch some more documentaries!"

JUSTIN: [Laughs]

LARRY: And I hope "Camp Out" will get you to watch documentaries and to get your viewers to watch more documentaries. I think Logo is a perfect place to do that because their "Momentum" series has some amazing profiles of people out there in the GLBT community, and I think people forget that we are the guy-next-door, we do come in all shapes and sizes, we do a lot of different things. It's a way to learn from each other, and I think why documentary is so important these days is because it's a way to validate our lives, it's another way to see what other people are doing. What other people are doing it should excite us and motivate us to get out there and be political be social, travel and see the world, make a new friend, do something. And so I hope "Camp Out" will start that process for you and for a lot of people.

JUSTIN: Well I agree absolutely, and this will be the second time that our GCN folks have been eager to tune into Logo because just in the last couple months, one of our members was showcased on the "Be Real" series where he came to our conference and there were cameras there and captured all of that and people have been really excited to see GCN on Logo. So I'm going to encourage everyone to watch it this weekend. And so "Camp Out" is premiering this Saturday July 28th at 9 o'clock PM and all the times are available on Logo's website at logoonline.com and you can also visit the, you guys have a website, right? Camp Out?

LARRY: Yeah, it's campoutmovie.com and you can also find us on MySpace.

JUSTIN Awesome, so check it out Logoonline.com and Campoutmovie.com and look for them on MySpace and everything else and make sure that you watch "Camp Out" this weekend, this Saturday at 9 PM on Logo. Larry Grimaldi, thank you so much for joining us today!

LARRY: Thank you so much I really appreciate you having me on your show.

JUSTIN: I know a lot of our listeners are going to say, "It's a shame we don't have Logo, because we can't see the film." Well from what I understand, Logo may be streaming it online. Now I don't know this for sure, so if it doesn't happen, don't blame me, but from what I hear, Logo may be streaming this online at some point after it airs. I imagine if so, that it would be announced on Logoonline.com. So check that out. If they do it, then they'll probably do it through Joost. Now if you haven't seen Joost, it's a website where you can stream a bunch TV shows. I haven't used it but I hear that it's easy to use. So take that for what it is. It's J-O-O-S-T, J-O-O-S-T-dot-com, joost.com. So there's a Logo channel on there, you can watch the channel and see, if you don't have Logo and you don't have a friend who has Logo, you can head over to Joost and see if Logo starts streaming "Camp Out" here in the near future. If you miss it this weekend, it will air several more times, so watch the website to find out when that will happen. Also, I wanted to point to, again, to The Naming Project and this is the organization that puts on this camp every summer. So like if you're in high school and you're really interested in doing this gay Christian summer camp, let them know and you know I imagine you're going to have parental consent and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, If you're like in the closet, it's probably not going to work, but if you're interested head over to The Naming Project's website. That web address is www.thenamingproject.org. It's thenamingproject-dot-org and head over to their site and there's some information it says "summer camp" down on the left side of the screen and you find out all about the camp. We're going to see if we can get some of the kids who were in the documentary to come on and tell us some more about it from their prospective on a future show, so stay tuned for that. In the mean time though, I have talked as much as I can talk without a co-host. So we better get the co-host in here as soon as possible. In the mean time, remember you can listen to past shows on gaychristian.net/gcnradio. You can also listen to GCN Radio automatically every week, every Friday through iTunes. Head over to the iTunes Podcast directory and do a search for GCN Radio. Remember that's G-C-N, not G-N-C the health food store. So until next week remember, Jesus died for you, no matter what anybody else says, God loves you! God bless! See you next week.