GCN Radio - September 9, 2005
Transcribed by Vombatus

To listen to this episode, visit http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio

BRIAN: Hi, this is Brian with GCN Radio with a few brief words before we get started with today's program. Our show today is a bit different. There is no guest, it'll just be Justin and I talking about some of our observations and personal feelings in the wake of the Hurricane Katrina tragedy. We'll also discuss some of out other issues of grief and loss that we have experienced. We do hope that this will be an important show for you; it was very important for Justin and I as we all grapple with loss, especially given current events. I also wanted to announce that due to some technical difficulties, the show is coming out a little bit later than we prefer. Our goal is to have the show available to you on Friday mornings and occasionally we're not able to make that deadline due to circumstances beyond our control. Also, Justin is broadcasting this week from the high-voltage GCN remote headquarters located--I'm afraid I can't say that, can't say where that's located. It's a big secret! Anyway, you'll notice that his audio sounds a little bit different this week, for that reason. So! Enough of the preliminaries, let's get right to this week's show. Thanks for listening.

[GCN Radio Intro]

JUSTIN: Well, here we are with another edition of GCN Radio, and wow, Brian, it seems like every week we've got stuff to talk about and have lots of fun things to talk about, and this week... this week's been a bit stressful for a lot of reasons. I know you were saying that you're stressed and everybody is feeling to a large extent on edge with everything that's been going on with Hurricane Katrina. Many of us know people who are really affected by the storm in some pretty major ways and it's hard not to think about these kind of things.

BRIAN: I mean, just to turn on the television and to see the rubble and all of the destruction and the faces of the people who have lost everything or who have struggled to get out of the areas affected. And not just New Orleans, but parts of Mississippi, and even Alabama... it's heartbreaking and it's on a scale that I don't think we even know yet. And we all should be praying as much as we can and doing whatever we can for people.

JUSTIN: Well, you know... I mean, I feel like it's so important for us to do what we can, as you say, to pray and to give--I've said that before and I'll say it again, if you're able please give to the organizations that are providing relief. It's something that we can't do directly as an organization. We just don't have the resources to be there and help the hurricane victims, but there are organizations who can, and I encourage everyone to support those organizations. But of course, this effects everybody. Not just those who lose homes and family members and jobs and everything else, but those of us who are sitting watching this on television, it's easy for us to get down and at the same time I think, "What right do I have to be upset at some little thing that went wrong in my day, or something that I'm frustrated about, when these people have no idea where they're going to work or what they're going to do?"

BRIAN: Right.

JUSTIN: You know?

BRIAN: I feel exactly the same way, just thinking about my own frustrations and things. It's nothing compared to what different people are going through. I don't know if people have had a chance to go back and hear the show we did with Steve Schachlin. He has a wonderful song called 'Where is God?'
[music...]
If He can send the earthquake and the hurricane
If He can send down forty days and nights of rain
If He can have the power to give us all this pain
Why doesn't He just not do it?
Why does He put us through it?

BRIAN: I think that's a question that we're all asking, "Where is God?" First of all, how could God allow this to happen, and second, where is God in the recovery process? I've been struggling with that a little bit. What are your thoughts on that?

JUSTIN: Well, you know, it's one of these questions... it seems like whenever there's a tragedy, there's always someone there asking the question of the theologians: "Where is this God that you say you believe in? If He's all good and He's all powerful, how does He let such bad things happen?" What we often don't realize is how God uses these events in our lives to bring us closer to Him.

BRIAN: Right.

JUSTIN: And it seems like at times, that it takes a tragedy or a difficult period in my life to bring me back to God, to remind me what it is that life is all about and what it is that I really believe. And I don't want to say that to trivialize what's going on. I don't want to give the impression that God destroys people's lives so that we'll realize that we're dependent on Him. I think there's a great deal more to it than that.

BRIAN: One of the things--I've never talked about this, certainly, not on the program before--but four years ago, in fact four years ago a few days ago, I lost my father in a car accident. I think my mom and sister and I were... first of all, we were a very close family, dad was very much present in our lives and I had a wonderful relationship with him. And I think we asked ourselves, "Why would God allow this?" And our pastor at the funeral, one of the things that he says is that God doesn't plan on these things happening. He doesn't want people to die in car accidents or to lose their lives and homes and property, but He gives us free will, and he also believes that good is going to win. It's like in Job, where God allows all of these bad things to happen to Job, not because He wants bad things to happen to Job, but because He knows that Job is going to have faith and that God's love will eventually win no matter how bad things get.

JUSTIN: Hmm. You know, Brian, I did not know--because we had not discussed this ahead of time--I did not know that you were thinking about that, we hadn't talked about your bringing that up, but it's so interesting that you brought that up about your father just now because I, earlier today, was sitting down and working on some work with GCN and all of a sudden... I'm not even sure why... I was thinking about a very dear friend of mine who passed away of leukemia about four years ago.

BRIAN: Ohhh...

JUSTIN: And I don't know what brought him to my mind, but I was pulling up some things on the computer and I was sort of revisiting his death, and I guess I was surprised how much is still affects me after four years. He wasn't a parent or a family member at all, but he was someone I cared about very much and -I don't know, I don't have anything profound to say...

BRIAN: I think just memories... sometimes those feelings you can't put into words. There are no words to describe what you feel when you lose someone close. For me, describing my father's death, and those who have lost loved ones in any tragedy can relate to this, it's like being thrust into a different world, a world where you have to rebuild things without that person and you have to relearn things like how to be happy. The tragedies and suffering that we are involved in here, "The Valley of Tears" that is talked about, that's temporary, that's going to go away. We are on a course as Christians to a better way, a better world. We're called to cling to that hope of resurrection, even in times that are dark.

JUSTIN: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, at the same time, that doesn't always make it easy to deal with.

BRIAN: No.

JUSTIN: I mean, we can say, "our treasure is in heaven" and "this world is temporary", and we know that the people we lose while we're here we will see again, and that the things that we lose here were never that important to begin with... but that sorrow is real. I think that in some ways its comforting to me to know that God understands that pain. That when you look in the gospel account of Jesus and Lazarus. And the fact that Lazarus had died while Jesus was gone, and when Jesus comes and hears that Lazarus has died, there's that one passage that we know as the shortest passage in the Bible where it simply says "Jesus wept." And scholars have debated for years about what that passage means--why was Jesus weeping? Was he weeping because people didn't believe in him? Or was something else going on?

BRIAN: Right.

JUSTIN: But it seems that the simplest explanation would be that Jesus wept because his dear friend had died, and that it made him sad. Of course, the next part of the story is that Jesus then brings him back from the dead, you know. And I think that some of us want to see Jesus not as fully human but just as all God all the time. You know what I mean? The Christian conception of Jesus as fully God and fully human at the same time is so difficult for us. We want to see him as being so holy that he just couldn't have been upset at a friend dying, because certainly he's Jesus. I mean, if anybody knows that he would see people again in heaven it would be Jesus, right?

BRIAN: Right, sure.

JUSTIN: And you... I don't know, sometimes it's difficult to think of God as going through that same pain. God is God. But, I don't know, I find that comforting. I find that comforting that Jesus wept when his friend died and that it is okay for us, too, to grieve when these things happen.

BRIAN: I think that it's so miraculous that God humbled Himself to become a man and to be like us, as you say, in all things but sin. I want to go back and say that I never mean to say just, "Let go and let God" or that relying on God and trusting in Him was ever easy. It's the way we're called to, but it's not an easy road. And in fact, it's a road to the cross, and the road to the cross is death. It's not easy. And that's why it's so great to have Christian communities to support each other in the walk that we're on, the walk to the cross, with Jesus. And when you lose things and people and property, then you just have to cling even more to the people that are here that you do love.

JUSTIN: Absolutely, because you don't know. Be grateful for what you have because you don't know how long you're going to have it. I think that's a good idea, to take a moment and think about the people in your life today who you still have with you, who are important. And maybe you don't always tell them how important they are to you. Maybe the last conversation you had with them was an argument or was a strained conversation. Or maybe you just haven't talked to them much about anything important at all lately. And really take some time and write a note to somebody or call them on the phone or go see them in person and give them a hug and just let them know, "I appreciate you so much and I'm so glad you're here." Because you never know. You don't get a chance to say goodbye to somebody...

BRIAN: You never know the time, nor the hour.

JUSTIN: And I think that's part of what I was thinking about with my friend, earlier today, is I really regret that we were not on the best of terms when he died. I did not know he had died until after the fact. I didn't get to go to his funeral. We had had an argument and had sort of patched it up, but not as much as I would have liked to and I regret that. I'm sorry to be such a downer today, Brian!

BRIAN: No, I think it's good to be open about how we're feeling. That's what we can do on a program like this is share when things aren't always the happiest. We can be honest about that, and then we can on another show, we can celebrate happy things.

JUSTIN: Like funnel cake, which was the theme...

BRIAN: Hey, someone e-mailed you--I think a couple of people e-mailed you some funnel cakes, Justin, or at least pictures of them.

JUSTIN: I didn't get them!

BRIAN: Oh, check your inbox again, because I got one that also had your e-mail on it.

JUSTIN: Well, maybe it got caught by my spam filter, because I don't think I got them. But I'll go check again. But anyway, that's the theme, I think, of this season: it's going to be funnel cake.

BRIAN: Okay, well good. GCN Radio funnel cake.

JUSTIN: Well, before we wrap up the show, I don't want to forget the question of the week.

BRIAN: Absolutely.

JUSTIN: Our question from a few weeks again that we still haven't handled... you may have forgotten about this question because it's been actually about three weeks since we did this.

BRIAN: Refresh our memory.

JUSTIN: All right! The question several weeks ago was "If you could teach the entire Christian world one thing, what would it be?" And we got a bunch of responses, though sadly we don't have time to hear all of them. But I do want to read just a few that I thought were interesting.

Gregory wrote that he "would teach the entire Christian world how to love unconditionally." Which really is a problem that the Christian world sometimes has faced, we haven't always loved unconditionally.

Eric wrote, "To learn to get along with acceptance in spite of the differences between gay and straight, Side A and B, ex-gay, pro-gay, whatever."

Todd wrote, "Remember that Christ is all about inclusion, whereas people like the Pharisees were all about excluding those that they felt were not worthy. Christ knew that everyone is worthy. That is why He died and rose again, so that everyone would have an opportunity to be born again and to enter heaven.

BRIAN: Right.

JUSTIN: David spoke for a lot of those who wrote in when he said that he would teach the Christian world "that when the Holy Spirit led the churches to say 'All are welcome', the Holy Spirit really meant All are welcome."

And finally, Curt wrote, "The one thing that I would teach the entire Christian world is that God loves each of us, and that we should love God in return. God showed His love for us by giving the life of his Son for us. We should show our love for him by giving our lives: time, money, love, physical lives, even, if necessary to and for others."

I thought those were all just great responses, as were many of the ones that we didn't have a chance to get to, but we did read all of them. So if you wrote in and didn't hear your response, please know that we read it, that we enjoyed it, and

BRIAN: ...and we'll be sending you a funnel cake!

JUSTIN: [laughter] I wish! But certainly keep writing in and letting us hear your thoughts and you might get one read on the show. And don't forget, you don't have to send them in text form, you can also call us toll-free within the US and Canada at 1-888-GAY4GOD and answer the question as well. So the question--I have a new question...

BRIAN: Okay!

JUSTIN: ...for this week. You know, Brian, I had a different question planned, but given the topic of the show today, why not, let's ask this question: "How do you respond to pain in your life as a Christian?" Where do you see God in that, when you're going through difficult times, what do you do? What comforts you, what helps you in those times?

BRIAN: Great question.

JUSTIN: We would love to hear your response at 1-888-GAY4GOD or log on to our website at http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio/ and send us a response.

BRIAN: Excellent.

JUSTIN: Also, one other thing that I want to say before we go because I think this is worth promoting... another gay Christian organization, Evangelicals Concerned, has a preaching festival coming up next month. It is October 7-9. And if you're like me the idea of a preaching festival sounds rather boring and/or strange, but I promise you this is a wonderful spiritual retreat. And if you are at a place in your life right now that you are feeling down, frustrated, really in need of some spiritual renewal, maybe you don't feel that fire that you normally feel, or have felt in the past as a Christian, and you just really need to hear God speaking to you, again, I strongly encourage to you come to this if you can. It is in Ocean Grove, New Jersey, and the cost is $295, but that does cover everything; that covers your food and lodging so all you have to do is get there. The speaker for the weekend is Dr. Roy Clements.

BRIAN: Oh, I recognize that name.

JUSTIN: You can hear some of his excellent sermons at GCN in the audio section of our website. But I encourage you to go to this. GCN is not in any sense sponsoring it, but it is something I know about, I've attended in the past. I will be there and I look forward to it. And you can register by sending e-mail to registrar@ecinc.org, or all the information is there at their website at http://www.ecinc.org.

BRIAN: Well, that sounds exciting, and thanks for letting us know about that. I think that is about it for this show. As always, you can e-mail us with comments, questions, or anything else you want (ahem, money) at our e-mail address which is gcnradio@gaychristian.net. And you can listen to us anytime you want, old shows, new shows, old shows, blue shows at http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio/. So for this week, I'm Brian...

JUSTIN: ...and I'm Justin. Have a great week.