GCN Radio - September 30, 2005
Transcribed by Vombatus

To listen to this episode, visit http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio

[GCN Radio Intro]

BRIAN: It's good to be here for another episode of GCN Radio, and I'm especially excited today. I'm almost giddy, Justin, because for the first time... and this has been a goal of mine since starting GCN Radio, I've wanted to be able to produce the show out of my home. And, lo and behold, here I am, our first show from the official GCN studios at Brian's home. And I'll have a picture available of the new studio on GCN. But it's very exciting. My roommate has helped me make all of this happen, and the good folks at Staples, who didn't sponsor the show or anything, but I did buy a desk from them. It's going to get better, and I'm just excited about this step.

JUSTIN: Well, it's all good.

BRIAN: It's good. And you've had a bit of a vacation.

JUSTIN: I did have a vacation, and it was nice. It was nice to be able to take a week off. It wasn't nearly long enough though.

BRIAN: It never is.

JUSTIN: The bad thing about a job like mine is there's nobody else to pick up some of the work if I'm not there. If I don't do the work, then the work doesn't get done and I just have twice as much to do the next time. But, it was nice to take a little bit of time off and unfortunately it meant—that and some technical problems—meant that we had some reruns and a week that we didn't have a show. But it's nice to be back and recording a brand new program.

BRIAN: Yay! It's great. And I understand that since we're now back on track with our Friday broadcasts, that we have a question that was posed a little while back that we've gotten several responses to.

JUSTIN: Yes!

BRIAN: Update us, if you will...

JUSTIN: Well, way back on a show in late August we had a question, and our question was, "If you could take a pill to change your sexual orientation, would you?" So for those folks out there who are gay, if you could take a pill to become straight, would you? And if you're straight and could take a pill to become gay, would you do that? This turned out to be our most popular question yet. We got a bunch of responses. Some folks called in and gave some responses. Brian, I think you've got the audio from those, you want to roll a couple of those responses for the listeners?

BRIAN: Yeah...

NIKKI: Hi, this is Nikki and I'm calling from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma and I'm thinking that I probably would not take a pill to change my sexuality. I kind of feel that you are who you're going to be anyway, and I don't think that taking a pill is going to change that. This is not the Matrix, that is not something that you can do, or at least in my opinion, that's how I feel. Thanks!

TODD: Hi, this is Todd, aka Pirate479. To answer your question: Yes and No, actually. I think "yes" in that it would make life a little bit easier, there may be more acceptance, but then again, "no" because this is the way that God made me. But I could see how it could benefit people. I remember reading, I think it was on Queer as Faith, about a gay guy who was proud to be gay, but became a Christian and couldn't resolve the two. So for people like him, I think that would've been a solution for him. Instead, these parents send their kids to these ex-gay ministries, if it is biological. So I think the pill is a great idea, but not necessarily for everybody. Bye for now.

JUSTIN: So, a couple of interesting responses there. We also got some responses from the web site.

Clay writes, "For myself, I'd rather see a pill invented that would forever cure the worldwide homophobia epidemic."

Raymond writes, "Yes, most definitely. I hate being attracted to the same sex. It is obviously against nature."

David writes, "Thank you, no. I would prefer to live my life as God intended me to."

Tim wrote, "If I could take a pill to change my orientation, I would not do so. God made me gay and I'm happy with his decision. I trust God to reveal his will in my life as I walk with him."

Jonathan said, "If there was a pill like that, I'd be on my way to get it the second I heard about it. It would be like freedom!"

Jorge, writing greetings from Colombia says, "Being a gay Christian, it's a challenge. I wouldn't change my sexuality."

XYZAlpha writes, "Absolutely. If it weren't a pill and were a costly surgery instead, I would start saving up. Truthfully, I wish that I could shut my sex dive down. I don't want to change because the Christians think I should, I just think that my sex drive creates too much of a distraction for me."

Nathan wrote, "Absolutely not. I've been created with purpose and intention by a loving God and I want my life to celebrate the wonder and wisdom of my creator. I'm not going to try to 'fix' something about myself in order to make other people comfortable.

And Salvador writes, simply, "No. I enjoy being me."

So...

BRIAN: Wow.

JUSTIN: And those were only some of the responses we received!

BRIAN: Oh wow. Well, I'm very struck by, first of all, the number of responses, but also the diversity of responses and it seems like we're split down the middle of people for a pill to change your sexuality and the people against. Why do you think the division and the diversity in the answers?

JUSTIN: Well, you know, I think it is often really easy for us to get ourselves in a bubble of some kind where we think that everyone else thinks the same way that we do. I've heard people talk about a conservative Christian bubble, the idea that conservative Christians live in this 'isolated world and don't understand that there are other views outside of their own'. Which I think is unfair, to be honest with, but that conservative Christian bubble does exist. But it's not just around conservative Christians. All different groups have their own bubbles, and there is, I think, within the gay community a bubble that we sometimes assume that the only reason that anybody is opposed to the idea of homosexuality is that they've heard it from conservative Christians. But you know, there are a lot of gay people who are not happy with being gay and if they could become straight, they would. And this is the reason that some of these ministries, the ex-gay ministries and stuff, exist. They wouldn't be able to exist if there weren't people who were seeking that sort of thing out. But, of course, there isn't a pill and I don't believe that there is any way to change your sexual orientation, even if you want to, so that kind of puts the question in a different light.

BRIAN: It begs sort of a follow up question that is on my mind. What influenced your decision, what influenced your answer there? Was it the kind of the environment, what we're taught in the conservative church, or the freedom to be ourselves, is that motivating their responses? I just find it very interesting. As for myself, honest to goodness, Justin, it depends on the day of the week. There are days that I would really prefer not to be gay because of some of the pain involved. And then there are days that I'm really happy that I'm free to be really who God made me. And I do believe that God made me this way; I've come to accept it over time. I was talking to a friend who really put the question to me, "Brian, do you really think that God meant for you to be gay?" and I spend a lot of time thinking about that. And the answer is that I think so. I mean, why else would I have these feelings that I think are ultimately natural for me.

JUSTIN: It's certainly a complex issue and it's an issue that a lot of people feel differently about and some of us change our views over time. I mean, I grew up Southern Baptist, and coming out to myself as a teenager was a horrifying experience. I didn't want to be gay, I was adamant that I didn't want to be gay, I didn't feel that I had anything in common with gay people and I didn't call myself gay. It took a long time of struggling with my own same-sex attractions before I was even willing to apply that label to myself. And at time, certainly, if there were a pill, a surgery, a therapy program or anything I could've done to become straight I would have. These days, I feel much differently. I wouldn't, not for a moment. And that's simply because I feel that it's part of who I am. I wouldn't want to change anything about myself that would alter the way that I see the world so profoundly because it's one of many things—my life does not revolve around my sexuality, but my sexuality is one of many things that makes me who I am and is one of the experiences that I have had have made me the person that I am.

BRIAN: You bring up a good point, too, is our sexuality is not, or should not be, all-defining of ourselves, just like our jobs should not be who we are solely. We are the sum of our experiences and the sum of our parts and we bring all of that to our person. If we live as authentically as we can, then I feel that we're doing what God wants us to do. It's not always easy. But that's certainly what I'm called to.

JUSTIN: Yeah.

BRIAN: Well, that's a heck of a question. I'm so glad that people took the time to respond. Do we have another question for this week?

JUSTIN: Absolutely, we do. My favorite word is 'absolutely', I love the word 'absolutely'.

BRIAN: If I were to go back through these programs, I could probably pick that one out...

JUSTIN: I do, I say it all the time on GCN Radio [transcriber's note: Yes, he does.] and I'm sorry.

BRIAN: But are you absolutely sorry?

JUSTIN: I am absolutely sorry. Well, I have what I think is a really good question, because my question is a follow up. You said you wanted to ask a follow up, so here's a follow up question. "What in your opinion is the most difficult thing about being gay and Christian?" And you can answer this even if you are not gay and Christian. Based on your observations of people who are gay and Christian, what do you think is the most difficult thing for them. But obviously, I'm especially interested in the responses of those who are gay and Christian. What do you think is the most difficult thing about it?

BRIAN: And people can call the phone line...

JUSTIN: They can.

BRIAN: 1-888-GAY4GOD or they can fill out the little box on the GCN Radio page at http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio/.

JUSTIN: You know, I had an interesting experience the other day, Brian.

BRIAN: What's that?

JUSTIN: I was in Durham, North Carolina, there was Durham Pride and lots of gay people there, as you might expect...

BRIAN: Really? I wouldn't imagine!

JUSTIN: Yes. I was talking to some of the welcoming church congregations who were there and telling them a little bit about what we do over at GCN and this guy, randomly, said "Hey, is your name Justin?" And I said, "Why, yes it is." And he said, "You're the guy from the radio!"

BRIAN: [laughs] Oh my goodness sakes!

JUSTIN: "You're the guy from that show!" Yeah, so we have a fan who was at Durham Pride. He enjoyed the show on depression that we did.

BRIAN: That is so... I'm glad that we got that feedback.

JUSTIN: And do you know what they had at Durham Pride?

BRIAN: What'd they have?

JUSTIN: They had...

BRIAN: No, don't tell me they had funnel cakes?!!

JUSTIN: Yes!

BRIAN: So you finally got a funnel cake!

JUSTIN: I was there with a friend of mine and we bought one and we split it.

BRIAN: Oh good.

JUSTIN: It was okay. It was okay, but now I've had my fix for a long time. I don't need any more funnel cake. So everyone...

BRIAN: What'd you think of it, though, did you like it?

JUSTIN: It was all right. I wanted—I'm going to sound like such a... I don' t know what I'm going to sound like—I wanted a fork to eat it with.

BRIAN: Yeah, they can get a little cumbersome.

JUSTIN: Yeah, there's all the powdered sugar and stuff on top of them, and I wanted to eat it with a fork but they didn't have forks. You had to eat it with your fingers.

BRIAN: That was, like, a conference I was just at where they had these sticky, gooey desserts, and I'm at this conference with four hundred people and they have no forks. And what do you do? You're at a conference where you shake hands with people and get to know people and network and all this, and here I am with, like you just described with funnel cake, here I am with sticky fingers at this conference and I realize I can't shake hands with anybody.

JUSTIN: Exactly! Which is one reason I was so grateful I did not eat the funnel cake until after meeting all the people. But after shaking hands with all these people, I really didn't want to put my fingers on this food and put it in my mouth. So you really can't win. You have to take some of that hand sanitizer stuff with you. I don't do that. So yeah, it was interesting.

BRIAN: Good. Well, I'm glad you got to go. And speaking of going, I think that it's about time for us to go. Next week, I hope that you'll link up via podcast or come to the web site for a very special interview with a woman who's written a book about what it's like if one of your parents is gay—one or both of your parents is gay. She's written a book from a child's perspective and has collected a series of interviews and we're going to hear from her on next week's show.

JUSTIN: Very interesting, sounds like a good show.

BRIAN: So definitely make a point of listening then. You can of course go back to any of our shows or listen any time online at http://www.gaychristian.net/gcnradio/.

JUSTIN: And I've got something else to plug. In addition to next week's episode and the interview and all that, just this week we put up an audio file of the keynote address I delivered at a conference in San Francisco.

BRIAN: I should have said that earlier, that's a great piece that you did there, you're quite a fine speaker.

JUSTIN: Well thank you. Aww, well that's very nice. Well, I want to plug it because it was a lot of fun to do. I think it's funny, I hope that you enjoy it. It's not a dry speech. I really liked it because it was my chance to really communicate what the Gay Christian Network means to me, why it is I founded the group, and what it is that I hope that we can accomplish as a ministry and as an organization. What needs to happen, some things for all of us as individuals, and all kinds of stuff. So there's really, hopefully, stuff that might benefit you, and I hope that you get something out of it. If you haven't heard of it, you can listen to it by going to http://www.gaychristian.net/audio/.

BRIAN: Well good. And you can always send comments. I have gotten a few great comments at gcnradio@gaychristian.net, that's the e-mail address for guest suggestions, comments, questions, anything that you'd like to share. I'd be happy to hear from you, and we'll pass that on. So, I think that that about does it for this week. Thanks again for listening and for supporting GCN Radio and GayChristian.net. For this week, I'm Brian...

JUSTIN: ...and I'm Justin. Have a great week!